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| Member |
Everyone is blaming the gun shop. They are forgetting that customers can be inconsiderate MORON"s who will slip a round into the gun to check for how it feeds. Point is Stupid is can fall on BOTH sides of the counter. As for myself I was taught that 100% of the time when someone hands you a firearm you ALWAYS open the Action/Cylinder and look for yourself. It doesn't matter a bit if the person handing the gun did the same just before passing it to you. A gun isn't empty until your own eyes have looked in the chamber and magazine if it has a magazine present. I've stopped counting. | |||
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אַרְיֵה |
Several years ago, my wife and I went to a gun show in Orlando. Waiting in line at the entrance, we were behind a real cool dude from the 'hood. We got up to the table where cops were checking any firearms that were being brought in. Homie pulls out his Glock, ejects the magazine (which did not have any rounds in it), and says to the cop, "It's empty, yo." Cop takes Homie's Glock, pulls the slide back, and we all watch a cartridge go sailing through the air. הרחפת שלי מלאה בצלופחים | |||
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quarter MOA visionary |
So if it is 100 per cent the store then why would you check it?  No matter how mad you are at the store, the result could have been avoided if the customer (who fired) checked it or practiced safe conduct (checking, pointing, finger, etc). That won't absolve the store from any legal liability but that isn't the question. No doubt if you are applying blame by percentage ~ it would be more than 50%, IMO. Even if it was 99%/1% ~ outcome could have been different if the shooter acted responsibly. Saying it is 100 % store is ridiculous as ultimately we are all responsible for our own actions. AGAIN, this should not have happened but apply a little common sense here.  | |||
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| Member |
With just a single news citation/source, hard to say how or, what happened other than: - Customer was handling gun owned by the shop - Gun was loaded...not sure when or, how this happend - Gun was pointed at shop employee, who was shot and unfortunately died Gun shop employees have a lot to be responsible for, not only demonstrating that a weapon is unloaded before letting a customer handling it but, assessing if that customer is competent and genuine in their shopping. They're responsible for the safety environment, the customer may be a first-timer or, an experienced person with unsafe habits. Employee has every right to slow-down the interaction or stop it, making sure the customer knows the basic safety rules and sniffs-out any questionable behaviors. Was the employee careless? Was the customer a carelessly-naive? Who did what...we don't know. | |||
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A Grateful American |
100% Blame on store is if did/does not have a concrete written, enforced safety plan regarding every firearm and each step as to how they are to be handled, with appropriate training and documentation of training naming trainer/trainee, date and time, checked. 100% blame each for anyone in that store that handled that firearm, from the moment the store took custody of it to the time it was handed to the customer that fired it. 100% blame on the customer that took possession of it, even if they never saw a gun before, they know it's potential, and should have asked to ensure it was safe for them to handle. The idea that there is only a finite amount of responsibility and it mush be divided evenly or "fairly" amongst all parties involved is illogical. 25 people could have been involved in this, and each of them could have 100% taken action to prevent it. In a lifetime long ago and far away, I have dealt with systems that have the capacity to kill millions of people in an instant, and you can better believe everything I stated above is realistic and doable. No one should be unintentionally shot and killed by a stranger when prevention is a simple matter. "the meaning of life, is to give life meaning" ✡ Ani Yehudi אני יהודי Le'olam lo shuv לעולם לא שוב! | |||
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Diablo Blanco |
Are we positive this wasn’t a customer’s gun that came into the store loaded that was being handled? Also, I wonder if the customer is the one that loaded the round. If the gun was handed to the customer loaded, then the shop should be crucified. Even when the clerk looks at a gun before he hands it to me in a shop I check for myself. Even after once I for myself, if I’m going to dry fire it I check again before I pull the trigger. _________________________ "An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last” - Winston Churchil | |||
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| A Grateful American |
"...preliminary investigation indicates that a customer in the store was viewing a firearm for sale..." No, we cannot be positive, we only have the reported story, and we all know how that can be 50 shades of truth. "the meaning of life, is to give life meaning" ✡ Ani Yehudi אני יהודי Le'olam lo shuv לעולם לא שוב! | |||
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| Member |
Twenty years ago gun show at Hara Arena in Dayton OH. Entered and went to far end to start. A minute later, BANG! Two or three hundred people and for five seconds you could hear a pin drop. 15 minutes later the PA announced guy was on his way to jail, bullet grazed a womans leg. | |||
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| Ammoholic |
And 100% on the handler for accepting it without seeing it cleared and handed to him/her locked open, then verifying that it’s unloaded himself/herself. Additionally, 100% on the handler for breaking two other fundamental rules: “Never allow the muzzle to cover anything you are not willing to destroy.” and “Keep your finger off the trigger and surgically attached to your safety spot on the frame (or slide) until you have made a conscious decision to fire. | |||
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| Ammoholic |
My carry guns are always loaded. I do not unload them, nor do I store them before entering a gun store. Would you not consider concealed carry to be a good reason for a loaded gun to be in a gun store? | |||
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Member |
Damn that’s sad, I bet the guy messing with the gun feels like shit. 10 years to retirement! Just waiting! | |||
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King Nothing |
I heard he moved to Kentucky to get away from the spotlight… ...Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, was just a freight train coming your way... | |||
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Raptorman |
Treat the customer as if he knows NOTHING about weapons. ____________________________ Eeewwww, don't touch it! Here, poke at it with this stick. | |||
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| Member |
In all the years I have been "shoping" in a gun store I have never been handed a weapon that did not already have the slide locked back, with an inspected chamber or an open revolver. Never. | |||
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| King Nothing |
I was very much in the camp of why didn't customer clear the weapon, and then pull the trigger pointing in an unsafe direction, but this is a great point. I think we as firearm enthusiasts and beyond have all the safety concerns basically cemented in our brain, it’s not even a thought it’s instinct. Gun stores, though, should treat everyone as if they don’t know anything. They should take extra precaution because there are people that are brand new to firearms who have never held one or ever heard anything about firearm safety. ...Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, was just a freight train coming your way... | |||
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| I Am The Walrus |
I don't venture into gun stores often but when I have, I typically see signs which state: -keep all holstered guns in their holster -please check in guns in cases with a staff member I have brought a cased gun in for installation of sights. I set the case on the counter and most of the time, the staff member simply asks, "may I clear it first?" and they clear it. Trust but verify. _____________ | |||
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Coin Sniper |
Or we could wait for the investigation to be concluded after all evidence is gathered and witnesses identified to render a decision. Pronoun: His Royal Highness and benevolent Majesty of all he surveys 343 - Never Forget Its better to be Pavlov's dog than Schrodinger's cat There are three types of mistakes; Those you learn from, those you suffer from, and those you don't survive. | |||
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| King Nothing |
No goddammit this is the fucking internet and we demand non-evidentiary, inconclusive results now! Fuck em all and let god sort em kind of thing. ...Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, was just a freight train coming your way... | |||
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| The success of a solution usually depends upon your point of view |
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