Has anyone experienced this? I tried to purchase a Sig upper receiver (not even the rifle) and the Sig website said it was unavailable in my area, but if i plug in an address 20 minutes away, it was available.
I think it's because Sig's legal department is using old laws or some strange interpretation of an old law. There has never been an AWB in my area other than the 1994-2004 federal ban. If you include other cities in my zip code (Denver) there are also no laws preventing the sale of an upper, or a whole AR15 for that matter. Denver had a law that was superseded in 2004 or so when the 1994 ban expired, but there is nothing prohibiting the sale of an AR15 or AR15 parts, like an upper, in the city of Denver, and definitely not in the city of Lakewood where i live.
I realize Sig has to navigate a sea of local laws, but Denver is a reasonably large town and pardon the pun, but aren't they shooting themselves in the foot by not selling to a population that can purchase them legally?

I tried calling Sig customer service but I only got a "too bad" for an answer and they would NOT give me the contact information for anyone in the legal department so that I could help correct the issue.
Anyone got an in with Sig that could help out?

Thanks,

quote:

they would NOT give me the contact information for anyone in the legal department so that I could help correct the issue.

Maybe a letter addressed to the SIG mother ship, marked "ATTN: Legal Department."

would it be the same issue if ordered through a third party vendor?

Denver does have a so-called "assault weapons" ban, with one of the defining characteristics being magazine capacity.

As far as whether an AR upper is regulated under the ban, I'd guess that it's a bit of a 'gray area' under the law and SIG, and probably some other manufacturers, are erring on the side of caution.

The fact that you could order the upper for different zip codes, including Denver, does seem to suggest that the SIG legal team is either operating on old information or just playing it 'safe'.

I don't know anything about Lakewood local laws and whether they "piggy back" on the Denver ban.

Denver gun laws different than Colorado laws

I just e-mailed them. They won't ship any uppers to Maryland, either.

I can put any upper I like on a lower owned before our "AWB" went into effect on 10/1/13.

Can't wait for their response, which I'll post here, of course.

-Rob

Lakewood does not piggy back on any Denver laws. The Denver ban previously (pre-2004) named certain weapons that could not be owned in Denver, but they have changed it twice since then only stating you can't own a semi-auto rifle in addition to owning a magazine of greater than 15 rounds. This was changed from 20 rounds prior to the 2013 state level ban, so all magazines over 15rds were grandfathered, except that in Denver they passed a new law against the state pre-emption law stating possession of a magazine over 15 rounds is now illegal. Previously you could legally have any magazine from 0-20 rounds in Denver, but now that limit is 15. Statewide you can have 0-100 rounds as long as you purchased it prior to 2013.
The issue here is simply AR15 parts, which are not addressed in any Denver laws or State laws. The AR15 upper cannot use a magazine and has no magazine capacity without a legally purchased lower. I can buy one in a gun store in Denver, or at a gun show in Denver, but Sig won't ship one.

FWIW, there are only a few Sheriffs in the state that will enforce the magazine ban. You can walk into many gun shops and purchase 30 round magazines right off the shelf. Not saying Sig should participate in the second amendment sanctuary movement here, but they should at least sell to people who can legally own their products.

Modern Day Savage,

FYI, even that legal blog is incorrect. They state that in 2007 Denver reclassified the ordinance so that a semi-auto with more than 15 rounds was an assault weapon. In fact, the law written then was for 20 rounds and the 15 round limit only came into effect in 2018 with VERY little notice by the public. It was done in a city council meeting and they simply struck out the "20" and replaced it with "15" in the ordinance. Up until 2018, you could own an AR15 with a 20 round magazine in Denver. NOW the 20 round mags are not even grandfathered, the city council claims they are prohibited for possession.

Aaaand here's the response:

Thank you for contacting Sig Sauer customer service.

Per our legal department’s current standing, we are not currently able to ship them to consumers in MD. This is not a misunderstanding of laws, but is just our legal department’s stance, and is not necessarily representative of local laws verbatim. This being said, you should be able to have a local dealer in your area order them for you. You can use our dealer locator tool here if you’d like to shop around for the best pricing/ availability: https://www.sigsauer.com/how-to-buy/

Hope this helps clarify and give you some options Rob.

Best regards Sir,
David Gingras
Customer Service Representative

So they'll sell to distributors in Maryland, but not individuals.



-Rob

quote:

Originally posted by BurtonRW:
Aaaand here's the response:

Thank you for contacting Sig Sauer customer service.

Per our legal department’s current standing, we are not currently able to ship them to consumers in MD. This is not a misunderstanding of laws, but is just our legal department’s stance, and is not necessarily representative of local laws verbatim. This being said, you should be able to have a local dealer in your area order them for you. You can use our dealer locator tool here if you’d like to shop around for the best pricing/ availability: https://www.sigsauer.com/how-to-buy/

Hope this helps clarify and give you some options Rob.

Best regards Sir,
David Gingras
Customer Service Representative

So they'll sell to distributors in Maryland, but not individuals.



-Rob

Sounds like Sig is punting on this.

Disappointing, I understand that businesses are afraid and want to play it safe. Even though they are not breaking any laws.

I would like to see more big companies like Sig standing up and supporting gun owners whenever they can. This is a situation where they certainly could.

If there are acceptable options out there, I’d be using them and telling Sig they just lost a sale. Then I’d add that I’d be posting the same information on gun boards and suggesting that they use other options and cost them more sales.

I realize that much of Sigs profits are borne of military and law enforcement sales, but they do garner revenue from the private sector. If they care, perhaps they’ll make adjustments but my guess is that they won’t change a thing.

I’m certainly not going through the hassle of using an FFL to order an upper when I can get just as good hardware shipped directly to my doorstep.

Didn’t SIG used to have a presence here?

-Rob

^^^^
I recall someone dropping in to defend the US made Sig Classic guns with accelerated rail wear.

quote:

Originally posted by evlgreg:
Modern Day Savage,

FYI, even that legal blog is incorrect. They state that in 2007 Denver reclassified the ordinance so that a semi-auto with more than 15 rounds was an assault weapon. In fact, the law written then was for 20 rounds and the 15 round limit only came into effect in 2018 with VERY little notice by the public. It was done in a city council meeting and they simply struck out the "20" and replaced it with "15" in the ordinance. Up until 2018, you could own an AR15 with a 20 round magazine in Denver. NOW the 20 round mags are not even grandfathered, the city council claims they are prohibited for possession.

evlgreg, I try to keep up with Colorado gun law changes, but obviously I missed the most recent changes Denver made to its so-called "assault weapons" ban. To be perfectly honest, I try to avoid Denver and the surrounding metro areas whenever possible...and always cringe a little when I have to drive through the area with firearms... thanks for taking the time to correct me!
...and sorry you guys have to deal with those hassles. I wish SIG, and other mfrs. with similar policies, would step up and help with better policies, but in today's current political environment, especially on the Second Amendment, I understand their caution...

...having said that I'll always be appreciative to Magpul for what they did for state gun owners before they moved out. SIG could take a page out of Magpul's play book.

The thing is, SIG has to make business decisions. They could have legal folks dig into the minutiae of exactly which individuals' addresses are subject to which nonsense - which takes legal department time/cost to get precisely right- or take their best shot and have people in the fringes go to their LGS.

The latter is a defensible business solution - balance the cost of some lost sales vs. the cost of frequent assessments and the risk of getting it wrong and landing in legal hot water.

quote:

Originally posted by BurtonRW:
Aaaand here's the response:

Thank you for contacting Sig Sauer customer service.

Per our legal department’s current standing, we are not currently able to ship them to consumers in MD. This is not a misunderstanding of laws, but is just our legal department’s stance, and is not necessarily representative of local laws verbatim. This being said, you should be able to have a local dealer in your area order them for you. You can use our dealer locator tool here if you’d like to shop around for the best pricing/ availability: https://www.sigsauer.com/how-to-buy/

Hope this helps clarify and give you some options Rob.

Best regards Sir,
David Gingras
Customer Service Representative

So they'll sell to distributors in Maryland, but not individuals.



-Rob

Sounds reasonable to me!!! I guess I would be happy I could still get it, support a local business and maybe save some money!

I haven't been able to verify it but the internet rumor was that they are stopping making CA versions of their pistols!!