SIGforum
Gravity by nature is not a force itself, though it can be calculated as such.
May 09, 2023, 05:42 PM
wrightdGravity by nature is not a force itself, though it can be calculated as such.
I said this once in the company of a few IT nerds (my friends), and it was an intersting discussion. One of them told me I was full of it. Since my explanation wasn't sufficient for him, I would say my understanding and ability to communicate it are lacking.
I'm interested in how we in the great Sigforum could describe it, going beyond Isaac Newton, as described more accurately by Einstein, in turn tipped off by one of his Mathematician colleagues while doing his famous work on that subject. I read somewhere that is first try wasn't completely correct, but his subsequent output was spot on, experimentally anyway as far as earth experiments go.
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Wile E. Coyote School of DIY Disaster May 09, 2023, 05:56 PM
LS1 GTOGravity is a pull, not a force.
Ever hear a sun's or planet's gravitational force?
Magnetism can be both, a force or a pull.
Thrust is a force.
Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.
"If dogs don't go to Heaven, I want to go where they go" Will Rogers
The definition of the words we used, carry a meaning of their own...
May 09, 2023, 06:01 PM
bobtheelfIf anyone actually understands all the intricacies of gravity, they're probably too busy collecting a Nobel prize to post here.
Gravity is a force, there are theorized force-carrying particles that move at the speed of light, but it's also a curvature a spacetime that affects light. It's ridiculously easy to understand that basics and ridiculously complicated to get anywhere beyond the very basics.
May 09, 2023, 06:01 PM
ScreamingCockatooGravity is a curvature in Space-Time.
There's a difference between gravity and the strong/weak atomic forces.
Gravity is the effect of the strong/weal atomic forces on space-time.
He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster.
May 09, 2023, 06:05 PM
kkinaIt depends who you ask. A classical Newtonian physicist would call it a force, one of the four fundamental forces of nature. A relativist like Einstein would explain it as a warping of the space-time continuum by objects of mass.
May 09, 2023, 06:09 PM
wrightdquote:
Originally posted by ScreamingCockatoo:
Gravity is a curvature in Space-Time.
There's a difference between gravity and the strong/weak atomic forces.
Gravity is the effect of the strong/weal atomic forces on space-time.
That's interesting. So are you saying that the atomic forces inside atoms, equating to mass, in that mass bends space time. Is that what you're saying ? I'm not aware they know WHY mass bends space-time. Has this been determined and or settled ?
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Wile E. Coyote School of DIY Disaster May 09, 2023, 06:11 PM
trapper189"There is no gravity, the Earth sucks." Random sign in the Freshman Dorm 1986
May 09, 2023, 06:33 PM
ShaqlA fun version:
https://youtu.be/XRr1kaXKBsUA good explanation:
https://youtu.be/ZHxoM9lvzVA
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May 09, 2023, 06:41 PM
LeemurGravity is an explanation for a phenomenon we don’t fully understand. What really fries my brain is the concept that time is a function of gravity and the speed of light.
May 09, 2023, 06:41 PM
parabellumquote:
Originally posted by LS1 GTO:
Gravity is a pull, not a force.
Gravity is not pulling you down. Gravity is pushing up the mass of the Earth and therefore, the idea of being "pulled down" is false. You're riding on an object (or within it's gravitational influence) which is bending space/time. Imagine a bowling ball on a trampoline. The trampoline is space/time and the bowling ball is a body with mass. The trampoline is trying to push upwards to return to its original shape.
Of course, this is difficult to describe, since gravity already exists in the environment where we're doing the experiment, but you get the idea.
I can't explain it perfectly because I was stoned when it came to me.
May 09, 2023, 06:48 PM
sigfreundquote:
Originally posted by kkina:
A relativist like Einstein would explain it as a warping of the space-time continuum by objects of mass.
I've never understood the idea that that's an explanation of gravity. How does gravity warp space-time if it doesn't have power (the force) to do that?
Leaving it at "It's a warp of space-time" is just describing the result of the force, as if we described a gunshot as a hole in a target.
Saying that gravity isn't a force might be disputed by some of those people who have managed to tip a large gun safe onto themselves.
Yes, I'm sure many people are convinced that "It's a warp" is fully sufficient as a description, but not for an ignoramus like me.
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To operate serious weapons in a serious manner. May 09, 2023, 07:12 PM
LS1 GTOquote:
Originally posted by parabellum:
quote:
Originally posted by LS1 GTO:
Gravity is a pull, not a force.
Gravity is not pulling you down. Gravity is pushing up the mass of the Earth and therefore, the idea of being "pulled down" is false. You're riding on an object (or within it's gravitational influence) which is bending space/time. Imagine a bowling ball on a trampoline. The trampoline is space/time and the bowling ball is a body with mass. The trampoline is trying to push upwards to return to its original shape.
Of course, this is difficult to describe, since gravity already exists in the environment where we're doing the experiment, but you get the idea.
I can't explain it perfectly because I was stoned when it came to me.
Touché
Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.
"If dogs don't go to Heaven, I want to go where they go" Will Rogers
The definition of the words we used, carry a meaning of their own...
May 09, 2023, 07:24 PM
kkinaquote:
I've never understood the idea that that's an explanation of gravity. How does gravity warp space-time if it doesn't have power (the force) to do that?
I'm not the person to really explain this is in any detail, but it's not that gravity is warping space-time. It's more like the phenomenon we call gravity is a simplistic way of labelling the way massive objects interact with the continuum.
If you take Para's example one step further, suppose you were to drop a second bowling ball onto the trampoline. It would roll around a bit then finally find its place next to the first ball. On a gross level it seems like the two balls attracted each other, but in reality both objects are interacting with the field in the same way.
May 09, 2023, 07:39 PM
OttoSig"Gravity by nature" is kinda redundant isnt it?
10 years to retirement! Just waiting! May 09, 2023, 07:41 PM
architectWow, if you're having trouble characterizing gravity, how about giving the weak force a try? Among other things, the weak force gets stronger with distance unlike the other basic forces. Talk about counter-intuitive!
May 09, 2023, 07:46 PM
ScreamingCockatooquote:
Originally posted by wrightd:
quote:
Originally posted by ScreamingCockatoo:
Gravity is a curvature in Space-Time.
There's a difference between gravity and the strong/weak atomic forces.
Gravity is the effect of the strong/weal atomic forces on space-time.
That's interesting. So are you saying that the atomic forces inside atoms, equating to mass, in that mass bends space time. Is that what you're saying ? I'm not aware they know WHY mass bends space-time. Has this been determined and or settled ?
They way I had it explained to me by my astrophysicist friend is they don't know how but can only observe the effects.
Tie dilation is the effects of gravity. We can measure this with clocks in orbit around Earth.
This was proved then GPS satellites had to have their clock speeds adjusted to account for it.
Somehow the Higgs Boson(fields) interacts with "particles" to create mass(attraction/gravity).
Quantum field theory explains mass, general relativity explains gravity.
He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster.
May 09, 2023, 07:52 PM
Skins2881quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:
quote:
Originally posted by kkina:
A relativist like Einstein would explain it as a warping of the space-time continuum by objects of mass.
I've never understood the idea that that's an explanation of gravity. How does gravity warp space-time if it doesn't have power (the force) to do that?
Leaving it at "It's a warp of space-time" is just describing the result of the force, as if we described a gunshot as a hole in a target.
Saying that gravity isn't a force might be disputed by some of those people who have managed to tip a large gun safe onto themselves.
Yes, I'm sure many people are convinced that "It's a warp" is fully sufficient as a description, but not for an ignoramus like me.
Gravity doesn't warp space-time, mass bends space-time, then the curvature of space-time then tells matter how to behave.
Gravity is a way of describing the curvature of space-time, not an actual thing. It's believed to be an excitation in the Higgs Field, and that discussion is probably above internet forum discussion.
Para used the example of a bowling ball on a trampoline, which is a good example for a 2Dish orbit. In reality space is 3D and another visualisation would be an infinite number of funnels in every direction with each of the infinite funnels being a gravity well.
Jesse
Sic Semper Tyrannis May 09, 2023, 09:38 PM
jbcummingsI used to enjoy such mental discussions, now they just make me tired….nap-time!
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May 09, 2023, 09:47 PM
Hamden106Gravety fundamentally changes your potatoes. Especially the porkroast kind.
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May 09, 2023, 09:56 PM
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