https://www.libertyhealthshare.org/

It's a faith based insurance program, that seems incredible to what I have with 0bummercare. Anyone use this, or another one of the faith based insurance providers?

I do know they will accept folks with pre-existing conditions, that costs more at first, but after four years is equalized, if I understand it correctly. The costs remind me of pre-0zero care, seem too good to be true, I wonder about service, hassle, and acceptance. Thanks.

The only feedback I can offer is vicariously through a buddy of mine. He priced out Onumbnutz ACA and it just wasn't affordable (thought that's what the first "A" stood for, but I digress), and it was for catastrophic care ONLY. Since I haven't heard him complain about his plan with Health Share, I assume it's OK. I believe I've asked him if he likes it and he said it was way better than the idiot's alternative.

I believe these are one of the few Obamacare loopholes you can still take advantage of and it's very bare bones coverage just enough so you don't get hit with the stupid OCare tax for not having anything.

Thanks fellas... Tried to request more information, but the program is not available in PA... Why am I not surprised??? Boy, this state sure runs some pretty fine racquets/stifles any competition.

I know nothing other than what I've heard on the radio ads, but wonder if they are required to maintain reserves like insurance companies do. What happens if they are hit with multiple large claims simultaneously?

quote:

Originally posted by 2tonicP220:
Thanks fellas... Tried to request more information, but the program is not available in PA... Why am I not surprised??? Boy, this state sure runs some pretty fine racquets/stifles any competition.

There is another similar program called Medishare it looks to be available in PA.

https://mychristiancare.org/medi-share/

I have heard of these just never looked into it.

Its not insurance, it's a health care sharing program, you pay in, those funds are used to cover others claims, in some of these programs if a large claim is presented and greater than some amount they will assess the membership for funds to cover the expense.

It's pooled medical coverage, there is no insurance with this plan. I would read up on how claims are paid, you may have to pay the claim and resubmit for reimbursement from the pool.

quote:

Originally posted by 2tonicP220:
Thanks fellas... Tried to request more information, but the program is not available in PA... Why am I not surprised??? Boy, this state sure runs some pretty fine racquets/stifles any competition.

I can ask my neighbor who is in one of these which one he's in, we are also in PA.

2tonic...I think the link Black92LX provided is the plan my buddy is in. Like I said, I have never heard him complain, so it must be OK. Not the best, but a helluva lot better than the alternative...

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
I would read up on how claims are paid, you may have to pay the claim and resubmit for reimbursement from the pool.

Sounds problematic. If someone has the cash to pay a few hundred thousand in hospital bills, I doubt they are too worried about Obamacare premiums.

I have it it have never needed it.

Sigforum should start it's own

When I first heard of medishare a couple of years back, I tried to do some research and found out that they only had about $100 of cash in the bank for every member. Not much of a cushion if they got hit hard by a bad epidemic of some sort, or even just a few unlucky cancer cases in a short time.

What HRK said is correct I believe... these are claim sharing arrangements. But what happens if there needs to be very high member assessments. Will members pay? What legal remedy does the group have if assessments are not paid? What will you do if the money is not there when you have a major claim?

If this is all true and they are just relying on current premiums to pay all costs, I would be very cautious. In the financial world that is called a Ponzi scheme. I believe only MT does not allow medishare. Hard to imagine that 49 state insurance departments plus OBama care do allow it.

Interesting reading, and education. Thanks guys, learn a lot of new things everyday.

Yeah most people don't realize that very little, if any money from premiums actually goes towards paying claims. They go by what is known as the combined ratio, which is basically the amount per dollar paid on claims for every dollar taken in.

Here is an example


So basically what this is saying is, that State Farm is paying out $1.06 in claims, for every dollar they take in from premiums. Wheras Geico is only paying out $0.93 per dollar. If an insurance company's ratio is 99% or less, they're considered to be doing really good.

The rest of the money is made up with investments. Insurance companies invest the money that you pay in preimums and that's how they get enough to pay claims, expenses and make a profit.


So basically long story short, if you have a company that is only paying claims based on money taken in from premiums, they're probably going to go TU at some point.

We did it for a few months a few years ago. Since my wife and I are a bit over weight, they upped our monthly contribution and we weren't able to afford it any more so we dropped it.

A lot of churches (at least churches that I'm familiar with) offer this to their preachers as part of their pay/benefits package since they can't really get a decent medical package with so few employees.

It doesn't cover things that a Christian shouldn't be involved with (STDs, medical expenses from a DUI crash you caused, out of wedlock pregnancies, etc). It's basically similar to a high-deductible insurance, without as high of a deductible. You have to pay for any doctor's visits, prescriptions, etc out of pocket. If you have a medical expense that exceeds your "share" (their version of deductible), you tell the hospital/doctor's office that you will be paying cash. You submit the bill to the health share company and they direct the funds to the hospital/doctor's office. You don't have to pay it out of your own pocket first.

There were a couple of different levels of coverage (100K & 1,000,000 I believe) and if your charges went above the limit, you could ask for additional help from the members and they could decide to send extra money on an individual basis if they wanted to.

We were planning to get back on it at some point but I changed jobs and my new job actually has pretty decent benefits so we don't need it at this point.

quote:

Originally posted by ryan81986:
Yeah most people don't realize that very little, if any money from premiums actually goes towards paying claims. They go by what is known as the combined ratio, which is basically the amount per dollar paid on claims for every dollar taken in.

Here is an example

Those numbers are interesting, but, to be fair that chart is only about auto insurance. Health insurance has a completely different dynamic, cost structures, regulations, etc. Nobody expects their car insurance to cover ordinary maintenance, consumables, etc.

I may be mistaken, but if I recall, the 80/20 rule in Obozocare requires health insurers to pay out at least 80% of their premiums in claims. Some markets the rule requires them to pay out at least 85%.

RE: the non-insurance alternatives - health sharing, etc. I would be extremely skeptical of these setups. Maybe they are strongly organized and capitalized. Or maybe it's like the 'default debt swaps' before the 2008 crash, which all looked fine until things got tough, at which time they folded.

You will only care about financial strength in the direst of circumstances - when you get hit with huge medical bills and need them to step in. Till then, low out-of-pocket costs compared to Obozocare premiums look great. It is not now, when the sun is shining, everyone's healthy and all you need are annual physicals that you want to focus on.

Health insurance these days does three things: 1) negotiates lower prices, 2) covers ongoing stuff, and 3) covers catastrophic events. Make sure you compare the alternatives on all three aspects, along with their ability to actually deliver on them, in any and all situations. Insurance tends to be regulated by states, and they have agencies that check out their financials, etc. I don't know that the alternative setups have any independent reviews, but you should ask them.

Small groups are statistically less stable than large ones. Meaning that if you don't have a big sample, averages might not apply. A small group setup is more at risk of unusual claim activity than a big one. So they need larger financial reserves, proportionately, than larger, more distributed groups.

And, I hate to say it, but this kind of thing is probably worse if it's church-organized. I say this because, if you bought health coverage from a business and it folded, suing the pants off whoever took your money and didn't deliver would always be on the table. But someone hooked into your religious organization? Are you really going to be willing to go after compensation in court from someone like that?

So, put on your peril-sensitive sunglasses. Getting happy talk from someone healthy who is happy with them is not a green light, it is an absence of a red light. Kick the tires. Get their books, and have your accountant look them over. If they won't hand them over, run, don't walk.