quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:
Maybe my thinking was oversimplified.

I was thinking in terms of isolating the HVAC system and feeding it from the solar system (the one on the house, not the one with the planets). Now that I think about it again, I guess it would require some sort of automatic switching, to reconnect the HVAC back to the power company's feed when the sun goes down.

Nothing is as simple as it sounds at first.

It is simpler than that. Assuming no batteries, the electrical grid is your battery. If you make more than you use, you may spin the meter backwards. If you use more than you make you spin the meter forward. Depending on whether your area has ney metering or not, you may have your bill reduced by the amount you feedback into the grid.

ETA: To be clear, there is no need to tie a specific load to a specific source of power.

get hail insurance.

Be very careful.

First, many of the "deals" involved in solar are leases or lease/purchase deals, where you lease the panels from the solar company. In this case, you are bound by the terms of the lease, which include a monthly payment to the company for the solar, but mirabile dictu, the reduction in your power bill is greater than the lease cost, so you are "saving money". Not necessarialy.

First, installation voids your roof warranty, and any future roof repairs require temporary removal of the panels, all at your cost while you continue to pay the lease.

Second, the lease is (generally) non-transferrable so the solar company must be bought out or a new lease negotiated with the new owner if you want to sell your house. This can be a very expensive proposition. Two realtors of my acquaintance who generally deal in the $250k to $2MM range here in central Florida will not list a house with an active lease on solar, they are too hard to sell.

Third. The lease is for a long time, sometimes 20 or so years, so it pays like a mortgage. As the performance of the panels degrades, or as technology improves, any upgrade is on your dime. I don't know who is responsible for regular repairs, like loss of an inverter mentioned earlier in this thread. It may be they pay the equipment and you pay the labor. Know this stuff.

Fourth. In our market, solar installation does NOT add significantly (if at all) to the value of the house on sale. There are published metrics by market for what certain upgrades to your house mean on sale. Kitchen upgrade pays at XX% of cost, pool pays at YY% of cost, etc. Solar here is either close to 0% or can even be a negative if the installation is visible from the street and not considered "attractive".

Fifth. Understand your local utility law. I say this because there are at least three ways that solar can affect your bill. In the best case, the utility is obligated to buy back from you any excess power that you generate in a particular time frame. This is becoming very rare as the utilities get screwed by this. They still have to be there to service you if your production drops, and they still have to maintain the infrastructure, so paying you at your Kw rate is pretty unreasonable. Middle case is what we have in Florida. They give you a bill credit for what you generate at a certain rate. If your bill is less than what you generate, you pay nothing, but you don't get a check. Worst case is they charge you a line fee and a back-up fee unless you disconnect service and go completely off the grid with batteries and a back-up generator.

Solar is a useful technology, and in some cases it works very well. A car dealer near me built a fully LEED certified dealership, which cost $2MM more than standard costing, and the LEED technology paid off in 6.5 years. For them, a good deal.

For a homeowner however, unless you have preferential solar laws, or plan to be in your house a LONG time, it may not be worth the investment, either as a direct purchase or as a lease deal.

I am not by politics or temperament anti-solar, but there are significant downsides by market and type of installation of which you should be aware.

quote:

Originally posted by ArtieS:
Fifth. Understand your local utility law.

^^

Your cost/benefit analysis isn't done until you factor in your actual net costs of installation (after subsidies/tax rebates) and your actual savings, factoring in the arcane and obscure rules that states/utilities/regulators have come up with in your locale.

The installers/sellers may (and probably will) take a first pass at that but it's up to you to know the details.

Also, when you do the analysis, you should factor in your own estimate of how the retail price of a kilowatt-hour will be changing over the life of the system.

I don't know if DIYing this is nearly as easy and risk free as you seem to be implying. You'd be screwing with (and into) your roof. You'll be modifying your electrical system. What could possibly go wrong, especially if you don't have the specialized skills in dealing with these systems? And, of course, there's the whole issue of properly sizing and designing the system. So not only should this likely be done by professionals, I'd be VERY picky in picking the professionals to do it.

quote:

Originally posted by c1steve:
The cost of an installed system may be $20-$30k, however the wholesale price of the hardware itself is probably 1/4 of the total price. If you installed your own system, and were able to buy the panels at a wholesale price, your overall investment would be very low.

Also most new systems use microinverters, which is one per panel. They have many advantages, I would look at systems with micro inverters.

quote:

Originally posted by c1steve:
The cost of an installed system may be $20-$30k, however the wholesale price of the hardware itself is probably 1/4 of the total price. If you installed your own system, ...

Yikes.

On the ground: Sure. On my roof? No bloody way. Between panels and supporting hardware it's likely to present significantly more load than what's currently up there--particularly snow load in wintertime. No, a rooftop installation would definitely be left to professionals were we to do it.

Artie nailed it, every one of those items is key, now that doesn't mean you shouldn't check it out to see if it's a viable alternative to your current provider.

One thing left out of the discussion is the potential for rising future costs of powering your home. JMO depending on the administration in power, international conflicts, natural or man made interruptions in the flow of the source for your local power, and general inflation, the question isn't what will it cost to run your home today, it's what will it cost in 5, 10 15 years to run the house. I've heard people expect the cost to double over time. It's just food for thought Think about your $400 AC summer bill being $800 a month, or more. Just other considerations.

We've had this discussion here a few times, generally some of our brethren who live behind enemy lines have chimed in how they put solar on, and in Northern climes and paid it off in 4 to 5 years. The Key being they live in states where their neighbors fund their solar purchase, massive state and power company incentives, high payment on kwh produced, and participation in programs where you sell off that excess beyond your needs to a brokerage grid. As Artie said, in our self sufficient R based state, none of those exist, move to MA you get the deals.

So you have to decide, do I want to live where I can't have any gun I want and Free Solar or where you can buy any gun, anytime, as many as you want, and pay for your own Solar...
Not to get political, but Solar funding is politically driven.

I would suggest Tesla, although they are limited to 16kw systems, it might be enough for some homes to achieve 100+% power replacement.
Tesla offers cash price and monthly finance deals, not a lease. The monthly payment may be less than your bill and static which most people want, stable, reliable power and cost.

The second contact would be SunRun, if you are a Costco member you get a 10% Costco cash card with the purchase (equipment value not labor) and some other Costco Benefits including roof coverage.

Tesla beat the local company for us, see my previous post on how much. However Tesla doesn't make a system that is large enough to cover 100% of our demand. That may be mitigated though because I'm going to replace the single pane windows with new efficient windows, a couple of double doors, and may upgrade my 13 seer AC to a 19 seer.

One thing that's said when you research, you must first Solarize your home before going solar. Eliminate air gaps, replace lights with LED bulbs, high efficiency appliances, if you can, gas stove, oven, dryer and water heater, gas furnace, new windows, all combine to reduce the demand for electric power needs, and ultimately reduce the amount of solar you need...

This message has been edited. Last edited by: HRK,

How about in hurricane country? If you lose a bunch of shingles you can tarp. If the solar panels are damaged you also have limited power. No thanks.

I added about 800 dollars of extra insulation to my attic and replaced the windows. Huge drop in the bill.

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:

I added about 800 dollars of extra insulation to my attic and replaced the windows. Huge drop in the bill.

^^^ THIS RIGHT HERE!
We can all talk about how sexy solar is but until you properly insulate your home and mitigate various electrical loads in your home you’re basically pissing money down the drain. I have long told my clients that insulating your home to the highest degree possible is one of the cheapest and best things you can do to reduce the operating cost of your home. Period.

quote:

Originally posted by smlsig:

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:

I added about 800 dollars of extra insulation to my attic and replaced the windows. Huge drop in the bill.

^^^ THIS RIGHT HERE!
We can all talk about how sexy solar is but until you properly insulate your home and mitigate various electrical loads in your home you’re basically pissing money down the drain. I have long told my clients that insulating your home to the highest degree possible is one of the cheapest and best things you can do to reduce the operating cost of your home. Period.

Yes, if you read up on Solar they advise you to do this as well, because reducing the power load on your home through insulation, better windows, more efficient lighting, efficient appliances ie ac/heat and water heaters you'll end up needing to spend less on solar.

You can take the additional cost of an additional set of panels needed and use it to update the house, at that point your electricity costs will drop significantly.

Since we're approaching retirement age, then getting power costs to zero is an advantage, doing the above now, then adding solar by the time we retire we should have zero power costs, zero mortgage and the only bill will be taxes.

Now If we could only eliminate property tax.....