I just found out about plug-in hybrid. I'm still looking at (new) Toyotas and noticed the plug-in hybrid. Basically sounds like a short range EV (50 miles - day trips around town?) plus a hybrid engine combined versus a regular hybrid.

The EV range would probably cover most of our daily usage and never have to engage the gas/hybrid engine. This may be a nice (but unnecessary) hedge against gas shortages (if they ever manifest).

Anybody have any first hand experience or exposure to them (like the Rav4?)? Any thoughts? It may be just more maintenance, things to break for little practical benefit. Or may be useful.

Sounds like the EV battery and the Hybrid engine battery are independent but not sure. If so, it would have been nice if the hybrid engine could also charge the EV battery (reducing the need to plug-in).

Consider as possible candidate? Or stay away?

My wife bought the Ford Escape plug-in early last year. The range is about 30 or 40 miles on the battery and as such she uses very little gasoline on a typical day of driving.

I was trying to steer her toward a completely electric car but she liked the idea of still having a gas motor as to not need to worry about finding a place to recharge for a roadtrip.

When the gas motor does run it is quite efficient. I have a low standard as my truck gets 18MPG around town. Her escape is easily in the 40 to 50MPG range.

At the price I pay per kwH to plug it in an electric mile costs me about half as much as a gasoline one. On the 120V charger that came with the car it charges completely overnight. As far as I know there is only a single high voltage drive battery. The recharge while driving seems to only be from regenerative braking or coasting down a steep grade.

We got a deal on it as the tax incentive had ended and interest had died out. The Rav4 was the runner up but I think only because the price was higher.

I think it is worth considering if you're doing a lot of short city trips but like the gasoline backup.

Agree that if your travels are mostly local and under the plug in capacity then you'll see a significant drop in your fuel purchase requirements. In addition you don't have to worry about the total range of the Plug In capacity should you need to go further.

With a 120V charger you won't need any electrical work to be done to the house to facilitate a full EV 240v charging system, although most local electric companies have rebates that can cover most if not all 240v home EV installations.

You may be able to take advantage of plugging into local free chargers or lower cost while you are out for example having a leisurely lunch or shopping for a bit since you can plug in and let it recharge. Wal-Mart is investing heavily in EV charging stations, starting in California of course.

You can download ChargePoint and PlugShare apps to your phone, set it up to look for chargers around areas you frequent as well as anywhere, including look for free chargers.

Right now with gas at all time highs again, EV's are a bit more popular but the advantage of being a buyer is you can use the "when the wars over, gas will drop and people will go back to ICE" bargaining chip.

We bought two EV's and for the last year our gas bill is zero..... The additional home electrical cost hasn't even been enough to be noticeable since we recharge once a week per car.

We have a Mazda CX90 plug in hybrid. For a larger 3 row SUV it gets surprising good gas mileage and is averaging 50mph. The battery will get us about 30 miles.

I added a dedicated 20amp 120 circuit and the battery will take over 8 hrs to charge.

My biggest complaint is after the battery runs out there is a noticeable decline in engine performance. I do not see any battery recharge from the gas engine alone. Our state also hits us with a road use tax which is a percentage of the EV tax, yet a non plug in hybrid does not have to pay (for now).

I would prefer a non plug in hybrid and be cordfree.

I had one in 2017. It was a Ford Fusion Plug in Hybrid. The concept is intriguing. Best of both world. You have basically an electric car that give you around 30 mile give or take. If you have an outlet at work, that helps out even more. You also have the ICE/hybrid option for road trips that eliminate range anxiety and the convenience of just going after a quick gas up. Sounds like a great idea. What could possibly go wrong. Sorry..it's not that bad. I was just quoting one of my favorite Youtube Channel Unintended Consequences.

But there are cons. Battery is like EV, the cold will affect your range. The charging takes a long time. There are not many charging station and frankly for the limited miles you get, you aren't exactly looking to charge away from home. I think the biggest one is that you have 3 power source that can be a problem. An EV has a battery/motor. A hybrid has 2 motors. Gas & Hybrid. This has 3. So you have more chances of something going wrong.

I do think for some people, a plug in hybrid makes a lot of sense. Someone who don't want to step fully in EVs. Someone who has a shorter commute. Has an outlet at work. These were all me. I actually had the landlord come talked to me because some of business owner in the plaza was complaining about my electric usage. When I asked if anyone complained about their Christmas light, he said no. I explained I am drawing exactly the same power as those lights. They can come to me and I can tell them to kiss my a$$. He thought it was hilarious after learning that.

It was totaled in an accident after a couple of years I will say the first month I had it, I didn't go to the gas station but once. Charged at home and then charged at work. It let me parked at some of the reserved spots at hotel for 'electric' cars.

A few years ago, I looked into them again. I would have thought the range would be longer on the ev portion. Still about the same. I ended up with a gas car.

However, we just placed an order for a Tesla Y for my wife. Funny because I was a big Tesla critic. Not on politics...but rather the tree huggers buying the car and looking at us as if were the problem. A 2 car family is definite a good candidate for an EV. The self driving is just wild! Also, the fast charging and the commonplace of Tesla supercharger..I do think it is getting there. Lastly, with the self driving...I do think it will give senior citizen a few more years of independence than their regular cars. tg

I watch a YouTube car reviewer channel call “Automotive Anonymous.” The fellow is a physical therapist for his day job, but he’s always borrowing new and used vehicles from local Idaho dealers for his reviews

I started watching him when his main vehicle was a Subaru Outback Wilderness, but he has since gone to a hybrid RAV4, then a 4-Ruuner for the last 8 months, and now, most recently, to a new RAV4 PHEV.

So far, he’s happy with his. He pits it against similar models, and he gives updates to his on-going findings.

His wife drives a new generation Subaru Forester, so I still regularly watch , not for his reviews, but for updates on her vehicle as well. Below is one of the videos related to AA's new PHEV RAV4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ketXS_DiXBw

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ftttu,

We have a Toyota Land Cruiser with the T24-FTS engine. It’s a passive hybrid. The battery charges from engine/braking power. We have not had any problems with the engine or battery. If the LC was a plug in hybrid, we would not have purchased it. So far, it’s been a good vehicle. I do think the materials quality of the interior is on the lower side. Otherwise, we like the vehicle.

Wife got a Mercedes GLC350e plug in hybrid. 60-70 miles per charge in electric only mode. Other than driving it home from Ohio where we purchased it, we have not had to add gas to the tank all year. She loves the performance in electric mode, charges on 110. I can't see a downside.

With gas not getting used sitting in the tank, does a stabilizer need to be added?

Don't have one but was on a waiting list for 2 years till the rebates ran out for a plug in hybrid rav4. It's the best of both worlds and a plug in Toyota is gonna be rock solid. My wife's been driving a hybrid rav4 since new in 2019 and it's been solid. They had an issue with the high voltage cable design and replaced it under warranty with a redesign.
The only thing to worry about in my mind is not letting the gas sit in the tank getting stale. I'd make the gas engine work regularly to keep everything lubricated and happy.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
With gas not getting used sitting in the tank, does a stabilizer need to be added?

If you never got in gas mode then sure, wouldn't hurt to add a bottle of Startron.. or similar stablizer.

Or just go for a longer drive now and then and use up some of the gas and replace with fresh.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
With gas not getting used sitting in the tank, does a stabilizer need to be added?

You've got 1-3 months before gas will go bad. Plug in hybrids usually don't have enough range where you'll never use gas unless you're driving something like a Chevy Volt which is battery w/gas backup, and there's also settings where you can use the engine and battery that will still boost your MPG but still require fill ups well before even ethanol mixed gasoline will go bad.

quote:

Originally posted by 7iron:
Wife got a Mercedes GLC350e plug in hybrid. 60-70 miles per charge in electric only mode. Other than driving it home from Ohio where we purchased it, we have not had to add gas to the tank all year. She loves the performance in electric mode, charges on 110. I can't see a downside.

Wait long enough and the engine won't run. Allowing gasoline to sit too long without stabilizer will allow it to separate in the tank and the heavier stuff that clogs fuel injectors is at the bottom of the tank where the fuel pickup is located. At 1 year old you are at the point where your gas is probably safe to use but developing a bit of an Odor.

So take that car out for a nice long weekend trip where you drain the tank and get it loaded with nice fresh gasoline. BTW don't even think about draining the tank, you won't find anyone willing to take fuel cans full of bad gas.

No personal experience, but pHEVs kind of get the worst of both worlds, or higher peaks and valleys, if you will. You typically have only a short range battery compared to full EVs, but when it's empty, you're lugging around 500 extra lbs killing MPGs, but when it's full, you're lugging around an engine which drains your kWhs. Example: 2026 Rav4 Hybrid 3,838lbs, 2026 Rav4 pHEV 4,430 lbs.

A true hybrid will always be burning gas, to a degree, so little chance of old gas, and you never have to look for a charger. If charging your vehicle is no big deal, why aren't you getting a full EV? Gas is expensive compared to past years, but you only have to consider one fuel source vs two for the pHEV.

The EU has been giving tax credits for the last decade to corporations for the purchase of pHEVs who keep salaries low by providing a company car. However, they've invested insignificantly in the infrastructure to charge them. The result is a ludicrous number of pHEVs who have never seen a charging port. You can likely guess the satisfaction of the drivers.

All that being said, due to the pHEV setup, acceleration 0-60 is much better than the comparable toyota hybrids. This is due do Toyota's HEVs are setup for efficiency, while the pHEVs can act more like an EV and give you more instant torque. I do believe the pHEVs are designed to be a great way for people to dip their toe into full EVs. While the battery is charged that's essentially what you have. After a few years under lease, you'll then have a better idea if a full EV is right for you. You might decide regular HEVs, or even ICE vehicles, fit your lifestyle better.

Thanks, yea I've been considering the additional dead weight of the EV battery on MPG / performance / handling in hybrid mode. And the additional complexity / failure points.

The attraction is not really to save money per se (in gas) but to hedge against gas shortages should they arise (I can manage through short term increase in gas prices but I'm concerned about no gas available like 50 years ago - 50 mile EV range would handle most of our daily transpo needs).

Gas shortage risk, I think, is low but for possible new idiotic policies of certain parties.

Other than that, the breakeven point for PHEV seems to be in excess of 5 (probably 10) years for me.

FYI, here’s Automotive Anonymous’ recent video on his ‘26 RAV4 SE PHEV:

https://youtu.be/Cngcejviqwg?si=NwWlFZRl9v3GD76a

Gasoline already has fuel stabilizers present. Antioxidants too. Water separators (demulsifiers) also. Don't need to add more chemistry. Toyota already has SEALED the hybrid fuel tanks to maximize stored fuel quality...the tanks are not just a container.

You'll never know the answer unless you make a timely decision and live with it.