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Member |
I am hoping some one here might have experience or knowledgeable advice to help my HS age son explore career options. My son: he has a lot of interest in history, politics, absolutely loves geography. One of his greatest strengths is his imagination. For years now, his favorite pass-time is taking one of his favorite movie or set of movies and generating "what-if" scenarios for them. For example, he might choose Lord of the Rings, and develop an entire possible outcome if, say, Boromir had lived and taken the ring back to Gondor. He will draw extensive, detailed maps and alternative possible outcomes. He develops interactions between the characters, examining their strengths and flaws, and uses them to guide what the likely outcome of his "what-if" scenario. Clearly, he might become a fiction writer, perhaps the next Tolkien. But, I am trying to help him explore other careers that would build on and utilize his passions and talents. Since my talents lie elsewhere, I am hoping to find some suggestions from others that he can consider. It occurred to me that a role that I call "intelligence analyst" might be a great path for him. Someone that uses their knowledge of history, politics, and geography, along with developing prediction for the future might fit perfectly. Clearly the military and other government intelligence agencies do this sort of work, but businesses, particularly international ones must do it, as well. One question is, how does one get that sort of position? What are the education and experience requirements? Any and all constructive suggestions will be welcomed. This space intentionally left blank. | ||
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| Technically Adaptive |
National Park battlefields is what I thought of, so maybe a Park Ranger or something along that line. I'm not up on what is required for the position, and it may not meet his income requirements. | |||
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| Looking at life thru a windshield  |
I would suggest also to start working on language skills in the areas he is interested in. I almost went the Intel route when I joined the army, would have been my second choice. | |||
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| Get my pies outta the oven!  |
As far as I know, the US Army is still the only branch that can let you pick an MOS if your ASVAB scores are high enough. I would have him go see an Army recruiter, take the ASVAB (the Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery) and see how he does. The higher he scores, the more jobs are open to him and he could get into an Intel MOS. I still think the military is a really good route to get into a good career down the road, he might even like it and make that his first career for 20-25 years. | |||
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Optimistic Cynic |
My dad was CIA (post WWII era) and my wife worked to place "contractors" in sensitive overseas positions so I have some passing familiarity with this. Although things have changed greatly over the past few decades. Most clandestine gathering and analysis is now done by companies contracted to the various Government Agencies rather than by Government staff, a least on the civilian side. The Military seems obsessed with satellite and drone gathering rather than exploiting human contacts. A Bachelor's (at least) and military service (more than the minimum with at least one overseas deployment) is a big help if not an absolute requirement. Ability to obtain a TS (at least) clearance is an absolute requirement for anything more than the most basic jobs. It is also necessary to have a convincing "cover" background for the purported job he'd be doing (plumber, electrician, HVAC, janitor, etc.) Specific markers on background are often anathema to certain host countries (IT, Communications, Physical Security, etc., LE and associated are OK). Expect the destination posting country to do their own background check before approving a visa, but they are limited to examining public records rather than conducting face-to-face interviews with references. So here is the recipe: get a degree, preferably a Master's in a "soft" discipline, History, Education, Psych, etc. It would also help to have at least passing familiarity with French, Arabic, and Chinese. No University courses on the record that are related to Cryptography or Computer Science. ROTC is OK. After college enlist in preferred branch avoiding Special Forces or Intelligence commands (this is a negative for some foreign countries, but not an absolute disqualification). In the Military there should be ample opportunity for pursuing clandestine training and assignments, these should be exploited. Accept any overseas postings offered, especially in "sensitive" countries (or their neighbors). Using education benefits to obtain a "trade" certification would also be helpful. After mustering out, get a job for a few years in a trade, long enough to provide cover for an eventual overseas job performing mission-support activities with companies such as Lockheed, Leidos, Amentum, et. al. Compensation will be more aligned with the cover position than any non-trade-related duties, and expect to spend some time in the minors before getting anything he might perceive as meaningful. His responses to "events that come up" will have more impact on his clandestine advancement than demonstrated expertise in the trade, but the latter will have more impact on compensation, and position availability. The trade/career is much more important than anything on the intelligence side, most contractors in the field are journeymen in their fields, and not intelligence professionals, they get opportunities (from both sides) later on. So he should concentrate on this aspect (and pick something he likes for itself, not as a conduit to intelligence work). Above all else, convince him to keep his record clean, no drugs, no felonies, no pissing off anybody who might later be interviewed for a clearance. Potential employers want to see dependability and predictability above all else. Paradoxically, a history of confrontational or overactive interaction with the opposite sex seems to be accepted, even expected, reputational degradation by an ex-wife/girlfriend is usually discounted (unless it is backed up by public records of physical abuse, etc.) Best of luck to the kid! It can be a long, and difficult journey, but in the end, a very rewarding one. | |||
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Fighting the good fight |
If he's wanting to do any sort of federal government intelligence analyst position, he almost certainly has to go the military route first. 1) They all require security clearances. While they might be willing to jump through the hoops necessary to obtain a clearance for the right candidate, coming in as an applicant with a current clearance is a huge plus. And more importantly: 2) Veterans get a big preference boost in federal hiring. To the point where it can be impossible to get hired without that veterans preference. For example, I've applied for two federal jobs recently, and despite being highly qualified for both, I never made it past the initial hiring phase. Both rejection emails stated: "You have not been referred to the hiring manager for [position]. Veteran preference eligible applicants receive selection consideration before non-preference eligible applicants within each quality category. Due to the high volume of applications received for this position, only the veteran preference eligible applicants in the highest category were referred to the hiring agency." | |||
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Age Quod Agis |
Hi DrDan. Give me a call. I have at least three people for you and him to talk to, and they all have further contacts. "I vowed to myself to fight against evil more completely and more wholeheartedly than I ever did before. . . . That’s the only way to pay back part of that vast debt, to live up to and try to fulfill that tremendous obligation." Alfred Hornik, Sunday, December 2, 1945 to his family, on his continuing duty to others for surviving WW II. | |||
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Sigforum K9 handler |
I would suggest the military as an option. The Marine Corps intelligence MOS’s have been listed as “critical” for a couple of years now. They can’t keep enough bodies in the jobs needed because after a six year contract, Marines are moving to the big money private sector. Having just rotated off a federal task force, I can tell you that intel analysts as in high demand. Also, the Marines will also guarantee intelligence MOS’s based upon ASVAB scores. I know two young men that went in around the same time as my son and both went on intelligence contracts. Two years later, they are just now completing the train up and are close to being sent to their new parent units. Just a thought. | |||
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Member |
I would love to talk offline about it. I am an "intelligence analyst" 10 years to retirement! Just waiting! | |||
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| Member |
I trained as an intelligence analyst through DHS on my own initiative even though my agency doesn't/didn't have an analysis slot or unit. It was by far some of the best, most challenging training I have ever had. From my window, going military may not be essential, depending on where he wants to spend a career. A four year degree would be invaluable. Most all of the 3-letter fed agencies, both those with domestic missions and those focused OCONUS offer internships and recruit on campuses. The degree path could be anything from optical science to public health to mathematics to language to political science. There are also numerous opportunities at the state and local level, and in the private sector. Ny exposure has been to our state's criminal intelligence "lab" and numerous fusion centers, including EPIC (https://www.dea.gov/what-we-do/law-enforcement/epic). I was also offered a gig with a corporation that had a contract to analyze communication to and from prison inmates regarding ongoing criminal conspiracies. Regardless of whether he become an interpretive NPS Ranger or an analyst for the Geospatial Intelligence Agency (https://www.nga.mil)(https://www.nga.mil/careers/NGA_Virtual_Recruiting_Booth.html) writing and communication skills are paramount. My police reports and training materials improved a hundredfold after completing the analyst course. I became a better public speaker and learned the value of clarity and conciseness. I also learned the importance of citing sources and resources, as you can tell. A well-trained IA will not state that the sky is blue without providing visible satellite imagery, regional weather reports and articles on the role that reflecting sunlight off of water surfaces plays in atmospheric coloration. | |||
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| in the end karma always catches up |
Both my son and daughter in law were intell analysts in the Marine Corps. The Intel field in the MC is comprised of two fields, 02xx and 26xx. The 02 field is Intel analyst and that is broke into two fields as well I believe, air and ground, but not certain. Then there is the 2600 and that is the linguists. My daughter in law was in a drone unit her whole time in the Corps. My son was in an infantry Bn with with 3 deployments in line companies. After the MC he worked as a contractor and provided support for ODA’s in A Stan the money was insane, $15k a month. While going to school(Philosophy) he worked as an employee for Detroit doing intell for DPD. He now does corporate intell. My son loves his work. " The people shall have a right to bear arms, for the defense of themselves and the State" Art 1 Sec 32 Indiana State Constitution YAT-YAS | |||
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| Member |
A coworker majored in Middle East studies and spent six years as an CIA intel analyst. | |||
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Irksome Whirling Dervish |
My significant other is an intel analyst and I can say, without any hesitation, that very few people who are at her 3 letter agency have military experience. It is not a requirement to get the job. You certainly won't be penalized for it but it's not a core requirement. The more important thing is having a 4 year degree in a field that requires thinking, whether that's history, a hard science, accounting or, surprisingly, an English major. You need to have a thinking mind so you can write clearly and speak well. You will receive plenty of training but in the end, having a background like I mentioned already shows the brain is thinking. There will be presentations and travel so there are plenty of opportunities. It's long hours and he will get no more out of it than what he puts in. Do the minimum and you'll be treated as a C student. Do better and show initiative gets you much farther. But military experience is not required. | |||
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SIG's 'n Surefires |
I had a 40yr career with the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency. Best thing I ever did. We interact with most other agencies, all the military branches. I deployed more than once to Afghanistan; a coworker with carrier groups. Lots of opportunities. "Common sense is wisdom with its sleeves rolled up." -Kyle Farnsworth "Freedom of Speech does not guarantee freedom from consequences." -Mike Rowe "Democracies aren't overthrown, they're given away." -George Lucas | |||
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Seeker of Clarity |
We did a LOT of college visits, as my kids hit the age where it was time to select a school. Mercyhurst's Intelligence Studies program really caught my eye. These guys pretty much turn out what you're describing. It was very interesting. They also have a Center for Intelligence Research Analysis and Training (CIRAT) program that takes contract work for agencies and corporations where they get practical experience working in the field. Mercyhurst was impressive. I have one up there now. Those who don't like snow in the winter need not apply.  Mercyhurst: The Ridge College’s Institute of Intelligence Studies and Applied Sciences Center for Intelligence Research Analysis and Training (CIRAT)  | |||
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| Member |
Saying what agency you work at isn’t a crime, every agency benefits from ex military. Some more than others yes, but we haven’t even gotten into which INT he would be most interest or best suited for. For the NSA, which I work for, and other agencies I work with, most of what you said is not true as a whole. 10 years to retirement! Just waiting! | |||
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| Member |
A Masters in International Business is one place they used to recruit. Can't speak to recent experience as that landscape has changed over the years. | |||
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| Irksome Whirling Dervish |
I'm not trying to be difficult, and while disclosure isn't illegal by any means, it's not wise for a great number of reasons that I'm not going to share. All agencies that use current or former .mil as analysts are getting quality and vetted help but at her agency, it's not a requirement and most aren't .mil. Some are but most aren't and those that are on loan, require extensive training on systems and resources the .mil doesn't have or use. | |||
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Member |
While this advice may have been relevant at some time, it’s wholly outdated. I recommend he learn coding languages (python, R, typescript) and data science. Language is important if he has the affinity for languages. There are universities who offer degree programs in intelligence studies—interesting, but not compelling. Recommend poli sci, math, data science, even philosophy. It’s not as important to memorize what to think, or facts/figures that can be looked up on Google or an AFTTP 3-1 manual…but know HOW to think (critically). Send me a note (email in profile) I’m a 25-year (career) USAF intelligence officer…with 3-letter agency experience. | |||
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| Member |
As mentioned there are multiple ways of going about it. The Army has been hemoraging TS cleared Intel folks for almost as long as I have been in, but I still run into Intel contractors who haven't served (I don't see an issue). I've also noticed that alot of our country specific experts (that we specifically hire) often has a much stronger academic background than military. I have found them to be as well and often more informed then their green suit counterparts (Army tends to move their folks around, 1 tour you are in a European facing unit, next one a Europe facing until, next one a company command, etc.). The advantage of service either .mil or .gov is that they foot the bill for your clearance and schooling. Also, they can provide contacts and networking opportunities. A down side to going the .mil route is that they can give you experience in an area that dosen't transition well. One fellow I know went US Army enlisted MI and wound up as an NYPD patrol officer when he got out. No one was hiring his specific skill set. What your son needs to be doing right now is: staying out of trouble and managing his money. If you want to go into Intel and see the "Good Stuff", you need a minimum of a TS clearance, if not a TS SCI with Polygraph. You can't get that if you have certain crimes on your record or a bad financial history. I know at least 3 people who lost their secret clearance due to debt (often related to divorce or bad spending habits). Try and figue out what direction he wants to go. The .GOV and .MIL are not the only organizations that have Intel sections, some pay more then Uncle Sam. Learn the different types of intel and understand the methodologies. That will help him determine which way he wants to go or if it's the right field for him. Don't watch spy movies. Jack Ryan is a work of fiction. Become a digital native who can still talk to people. Briefs and Job interviews require the ability to talk to people. Not all Intel folks have this ability, some have too much of it. As mentioned above, both intel collection and analysis require digital expertise. Cyber intel is emerging/has emerged as a field all it's own, with interrelations with many other fields. Learn history and current events. Go beyond the wave tops that the nightly news likes to feed us. Most of the issues we are dealing with have historic precedence. Check out clearance Jobs .com and USA jobs, see what they are asking for in the way of qualifications. It could help. | |||
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SIGforum.com Main Page The Lounge Advice: career as "intelligence analyst," military, government, or business
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