quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
First you have to know what you're looking for. Different coffees from different regions have different taste profiles. Those taste profiles are altered, in turn, by how they're roasted. (E.g.: Dark, medium, light; drum or air, etc.)

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
Milk: none or pinch

Not certain what you mean to achieve with "a pinch" of milk. Sounds to me like something that would needlessly complicate your research.

Agree! I think I generally prefer light/medium roasts but I really don't have a clue (I haven't sampled enough coffee to normalize out beans type / quality to isolate roast influences). I drink coffee for both taste / enjoyment as well as caffeine; either together or isolated depending on the time. (ie - sometimes I just need a jolt and don't care about taste). But my perception is that lighter roasts yield a more tasty cuppa. I've ordered a bit of variety but not sure how best to figure out what I like between pod and brew types, with sugar/milk also altering the possible outcome.

Pinch is the wrong word but perhaps about 1 oz of milk. For example, I tried the India capsule - I didn't like it too much just as espresso. But with a pinch of sugar and some milk, it became very drinkable. Smooth, nice flavor with a hint of bitter. But just as espresso, I'm not sure I'd buy the pod again. So, the milk can make a difference (to me as a novice).

quote:

Originally posted by Pipe Smoker:
The crema produced by your espresso machine consists of microscopic air bubbles, the same as the crema produced by my 19 bar Nespresso Pixie.

Ah, but they are not the same. The crema produced by an espresso machine results mainly from released trapped CO² mixed with emulsified extracted coffee oils. (More on coffee oils, below.) The "crema" produced by a Nespresso machine results largely (?) from air injected into the brewing process. Thus the latter isn't so much "crema," per se, as it is coffee foam.

Do a search of "crema espresso vs. Nespresso" and you'll find plenty of articles explaining the difference, and how those differences affect taste and mouth feel. (I know "mouth feel" sounds weird, but it's a big thing among espresso aficionados.)

Even doing an image search of the two will reveal readily-apparent differences between them.

quote:

Originally posted by Pipe Smoker:
BTW – I enjoy your posts.

Thank you

The "coffee oils" thing: Part of what differentiates truly fresh coffee from not-so-fresh, even stale coffee is the presence of coffee oils in the beans/grind. Or the lack thereof. Those oils oxidize and evaporate as roasted coffee ages. This is one reason coffee/espresso geeks insist on freshly-roasted beans, freshly-ground just before brewing.

This is also why many use metal mesh filters in drip brewers and Aeropresses. Paper filters remove most or all of those oils. When I prepare my coffee, drip machine or Aeropress, I see the film of coffee oils atop my brew.

Yes, thank you for your expert insights.

I'm finding that I'm not liking most of the Nespresso pods; most have been average at best (tried about 6-8 pods now). 1-2 have been good and above average (would buy again). Most of the others have been take it or leave it - these generally become more palatable with some milk/sugar. But there are still a few that even with milk/sugar, I probably wouldn't buy again.

In the past at home (never had fancy machines), I've mostly enjoyed Kona in the french press. Lavazza has also been good. There is a brand (can't remember which; I remember a white-ish foil bag I think) that has hazelnut flavored coffee which I like a lot. And then for quick cups, I use a freeze dried espresso Medaglia D'oro https://www.medagliadoro.com/coffee/instant/espresso

I get the oils when I use french press or foil drip methods. Not sure there are any oils via the Nespresso.

I'm not getting the sense that Nespresso really uses good coffee in their pods, just good enough. Also, I wonder how much the pods would cost if they didn't have the "free" pod recycle service via UPS.

I found Lavazza pods for Nespresso but the reviews are mixed - plastic pods that don't always work? A nice Kona pod or Hazelnut pod would be nice....

ETA: I found a pod I actually like as a straight espresso 'pull' and with milk/sugar. This may be too timid for you aficionado's but it's to my liking - the Tokyo Vivalto. It's got a nice nose and is smooth and tasty straight. It remains tasty and creamy with sugar and milk. I noticed that this was supposed to be lungo but I only did as espresso and enjoyed it. Finally a pod I really like!! I hope it's consistent from pod to pod.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: konata88,

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
Yes, thank you for your expert insights.

I don't know as I'd go so far as "expert." Perhaps "informed" would be more accurate?

The experts, or at least those better-informed than I, are over on home-barista.com. (Thanks and a tip o' the hat to member sidss1 for that pointer.)

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
I'm finding that I'm not liking most of the Nespresso pods ...

That's unfortunate

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
I get the oils when I use french press or foil drip methods. Not sure there are any oils via the Nespresso.

That gets back to my explanations about what happens to coffee after it's roasted--particularly if it's been ground. E.g.: At the extreme end: You'll never see coffee oils in the off-the-shelf stuff you buy off the supermarket shelf.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
I'm not getting the sense that Nespresso really uses good coffee in their pods, ...

I cannot comment on that, but I would expect that, like Starbuck's, their coffees are (mostly?) fairly heavily-roasted blends. See, the problem with single-estate coffees is they'll have varying flavor profiles depending upon several things--including the weather. So the "same" coffee from a particular estate may taste different from season-to-season. Coffee geeks that buy green and roast their own, or buy fresh-roasted beans, know and expect this. When consumers buy a just-plug-it-in-and-go pod machine, they expect every pod with a certain coffee in it to taste essentially the same as the last.

Back when I was still purchasing fresh-roasted beans, I knew, when I got my hands on something truly wonderful, that someday soon it would be gone and I might never taste it again. I'm reminded of a Kenyan AA my roaster had for a while that was to die for. I think I managed to snag 3-4 pounds, over the months, before they ran out.

That coffee almost had me roasting my own. I could have bought a 5 lb. bag of green and enjoyed it a lot longer

Then there was another one, I don't recall from what region, that had very subtle, but discernible hints of blueberry. That coffee was awesome, too.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
Starbuck's ... fairly heavily-roasted

I'm not sure "heavily roasted" is really an accurate descriptor for most of Starbucks' coffees.

"Cremated" might be better.

quote:

Originally posted by maladat:

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
Starbuck's ... fairly heavily-roasted

I'm not sure "heavily roasted" is really an accurate descriptor for most of Starbucks' coffees.

"Cremated" might be better.

There's a reason they're referred to as Charbucks!

Speaking of roasts, it is moderately unrelated to this thread, but I am in Oregon right now and have come across a few coffee shops selling "white coffee." It's apparently a super-duper light roast (barely tan) ground very fine and brewed in an espresso machine.

Based on the couple of times I've had it so far, it tastes like about half like zero-bitterness coffee and half like some kind of mix of peanuts or cashews or pecans or something.

It is interesting stuff.

Special kind of beans or can they do that with any bean? I heard light roasts can be more flavorful, especially ristretto, but also deliver more caffeine.

My understanding is that it is done with regular coffee beans, but the limit of my knowledge is what a couple of coffee shop people have told me and a couple of internet articles.

quote:

Recommendation for home espresso machine

Jura Impressa C60 has been getting it done for me. Cost waas in the 1000$ range, so not cheap but not crazy expensive either.

I can't say I am a real coffee/espresso connoisseur, but it works well. I also no longer have much interest in spending 2 or 3$ for a cup of crappy coffee from Starbucks, so I figure it paid for itself in about a year.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

quote:

Originally posted by Pipe Smoker:
The crema produced by your espresso machine consists of microscopic air bubbles, the same as the crema produced by my 19 bar Nespresso Pixie.

Ah, but they are not the same. The crema produced by an espresso machine results mainly from released trapped CO² mixed with emulsified extracted coffee oils.
<snip>

Thanks for the interesting comments – you made some good points. But there are some contrary opinions. E.g.:

“…
Any brewing method that extracts the coffee under pressure pushes oils from the coffee beans and creates the foam on top of the glass. Both traditional Espresso machines and Nespresso machines push water through the coffee under pressure. Hence the crema …”

https://roargill.com/blogs/the...-is-nespresso-frothy

And then there’s this one, outta left field – I haven’t tried it yet.

“…
But does crema make coffee better?
While the consensus for decades has been a resounding "yes," more and more coffee experts are suggesting that drinkers scrape off the crema before drinking their espresso. This is sacrilege for many coffee drinkers around the world (like my Italian relatives, who I hope aren't reading this).

James Hoffmann, U.K. coffee expert and 2007 World Barista Champion, has been famously scraping off the crema of his espresso since at least 2009. In a Serious Eats article from 2013, Erin Meister wrote, "True, taken on its own the crema is a dry, ashy, overpoweringly bitter substance that would be unpleasant to drink terribly much of. So skimming it off a shot of espresso achieves a few things, in theory. Not only does it eliminate some of the ashy bitterness, but it also eliminates some of the mouth-coating foam and cleans up the texture on the drinker's tongue.” …”

https://www.foodandwine.com/co...rts-scrape-off-crema

Anyway, the bottom line for me is that I like the brew produced by my Nespresso Pixie, which I drink black.

A good friend of mine bought a $4000 espresso machine. He really went down the rabbit hole with all that stuff. Researching grinders, beans, you name it. He drinks about 5-6 espresso a day. Then the machine broke and it would have cost $1500 to repair it. With a newborn and all the expenses that comes with a family there was no way he could justify spending that kind of money so he got a Nespresso Vertuo. When I tasted the espresso from that I couldn't believe how well it held up to the other setup that cost thousands.

I'm not a regular coffee/espresso drinker but I bought one that's how impressive it was. I've had espresso made by people who spend thousands of dollars and probably as much time perfecting their espresso and for the cost and ease of use the Nespresso is nearly as good.

The best way I can describe it is if a finely tuned gun costs $4000 and will shoot 0.3" groups, a Nespresso is a Glock/Sig with some competent gunsmithing that will shoot 0.5" all day for a fraction of the cost.

quote:

Originally posted by Pipe Smoker:
Thanks for the interesting comments – you made some good points. But there are some contrary opinions. E.g.:

You're welcome, thanks, and I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on the other points

quote:

Originally posted by Pipe Smoker:
Anyway, the bottom line for me is that I like the brew produced by my Nespresso Pixie, which I drink black.

That's all that really matters, really.

quote:

Originally posted by Hildur:
I bought one that's how impressive it was. I've had espresso made by people who spend thousands of dollars and probably as much time perfecting their espresso and for the cost and ease of use the Nespresso is nearly as good.

You sound exactly like my kid sister and niece who loves theirs (Vertuo Plus) and have been pressing me to pickup a Nespresso since my old Isomac Zaffiro bit the dust. I admit to being tempted although I really would want to make / fill my own capsules. Don't know what all is involved here....

Pipe Smoker - which ones are you liking that you can drink black? And is that espresso or lungo?

I've tried about a dozen or so pods; I've found 3 that I like and will order again. The rest are too burnt / dark roasted and only drinkable (for me) as latte (added milk and sugar). I likely will not be ordering again (but it was part of the welcome sampling kit).

I still have a lot more types to try still. My 3 favorites so far are: Tokyo, Cocoa, Fortissio.

quote:

Originally posted by bald1:
I really would want to make / fill my own capsules. Don't know what all is involved here....

I would like that too but cursory feedback sounds like this doesn't always yield good results for some reason. I'm still exploring details. I'd be interested to see what you find.

Nespresso offers a lots of pods but I'm finding I don't like most of them. But then, I think I would be satisfied if I just find 3-5 that I really enjoy. That would be good enough for me. Right now, I have 1 I really like and 2 good enough to order again.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:

quote:

Originally posted by bald1:
I really would want to make / fill my own capsules. Don't know what all is involved here....

I would like that too but cursory feedback sounds like this doesn't always yield good results for some reason. I'm still exploring details. I'd be interested to see what you find.

Again, I don't own a Nespresso. But regarding saving money with reusable pods, here is an interesting article.
https://coffeegeek.co/en/how-t...o-reusable-capsules/

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
Pipe Smoker - which ones are you liking that you can drink black? And is that espresso or lungo?
<snip>

I order Nespresso Ristretto pods exclusively. But you’ve previously said that you’re not fond of it. At least, that’s my recollection.

I drink it in ristretto, espresso, and lungo forms – all black. No cream, no sugar.

Thanks - yea, haven't been fond of the ISPIRAZIONE ITALIANA pods so far (only tasted a few of them so far though). Roma was okay but the others smelled burnt / tasted burnt.

Okay - I'll keep working my way through the offerings.

quote:

Originally posted by bald1:
Again, I don't own a Nespresso. But regarding saving money with reusable pods, here is an interesting article.
https://coffeegeek.co/en/how-t...o-reusable-capsules/

Interesting that he didn't comment on how the result tasted, I thought.

quote:

But there was in my case an intermediate step that was to use reusable Nespresso capsules.

I went an entirely different route:

• From supermarket coffee in a Mr. Coffee...
  
• To Gevalia mail-order whole bean, a better brewer, and a whirly-blade "grinder"...
  
• To locally-roasted whole bean coffee, same brewer, same "grinder"...
  
• To a decent burr grinder...
  
• Finally: Cuisinart Brew Central with metal mesh basket, locally-roasted whole-bean, burr grinder
  

Then I took a major step back when my roaster moved too far away to make buying there practical any longer and started buying whole bean from Costco.

Now that I've an espresso machine and a more capable grinder (on the way), I'll probably look at making the trip to my old roaster--at least for my espresso coffee.

I found this an interesting comment, too:

quote:

The ideal coffee grind is as fine as that used for espresso. It should not be too [fine] (at the risk of clogging the capsule) or too [coarse] (the water will pass through too easily). If you do not have a grinder, you will have to buy different bags of ground coffee until you reach a suitable grind.

A couple points:

• An espresso grind takes a moderately expensive grinder. The least expensive capable grinder my research yielded was a Baratza Sette 30: $250.
  
• Buying random bags of ground coffee could get expensive, too
  

Whoops! I had more thoughts, but I gotta go fetch dinner!