quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
The Flair58 seems interesting but wonder how different it would be from a Pixie and how much I would really use it (I'm not so much an aficionado that freeze, grind, tap, boil and press is negligible effort; the Pixie pop-n-go is attractive if it the espresso is good enough).

I looked at Pixie years ago (surprised the machines aren't cheaper now). But I see that the machines are still well reviewed and they offer many more coffee pod choices.

Considering pulling the trigger on a Pixie. Just not sure yet still. It's a big chunk of change.....

I need you guys to stop making me buy stuff.

I have a Pixie (see my post above). Another advantage of the Nespresso Pixie (applies to all Nespresso machines): The capsules are hermetically sealed – the coffee keeps good for at least a year. That means that you can keep a good variety of the excellent Nespresso coffees on hand.

quote:

Originally posted by Pipe Smoker:
I have a Pixie (see my post above). Another advantage of the Nespresso Pixie (applies to all Nespresso machines): The capsules are hermetically sealed – the coffee keeps good for at least a year.

"Good" is a highly-variable assessment, based upon one's nose.

All coffee starts degrading as soon as it's roasted--regardless of the storage method. Even sealed, nitrogen-flushed, vacuum-packed, and ideally-stored whole-bean coffee begins to have noticeable degradation after no more than six months. (Source: SCA testing.)

Whatever the storage method, and whether nitro-flushed or not, ground coffee degrades at many times the rate of whole bean. This is because there is many, many times the exposed surface area.

Back when I was more serious about the coffee geek thing I'd buy my beans fresh-roasted by a local roaster. I'd get them home, still warm, divide the bag in half, put half in the freezer and half in a sealed container. About the time that first half started noticeably losing character, about two weeks, it'd be about used up. I'd remove the second half from the freezer, let it reach room temperature while still sealed, then transfer to the sealed in-use container. Even having been frozen for two weeks I could still taste the improvement in that other half pound over the remainder of what had been in use for two weeks. (Being in a sealed bag and frozen slowed the oxidation.)

(I once tried dividing into thirds. The character degradation between the end of 1/3 and the end of 1/2 wasn't particularly perceptible, to my taste.)

I also ground just prior to brewing. Found out the hard way that, even grinding just the night before, coffee would lose considerable character by the next morning. I'd say at least as much as, if not more, than two-week-old whole bean. I wasn't imagining it, either, because I discovered it entirely by accident and hadn't expected it. This was observed with three different roasts.

However, in all the above we're talking very subtle differences in the character of the cup. Probably the vast majority of people would never notice the difference. Particularly if they'd never gone to the lengths I, and other coffee aficionados, have.

I just want to drink something tasty in the color black that I can easily and consistently make.

Perhaps unfortunate, but I don't think I apply that level of rigor and sensitivity to anything in my life.

It's like when I used to golf. If I hit 80 one day, that was great. If I hit 110 the next day, it's still great.

quote:

Originally posted by Pipe Smoker:

Looks like a lot of work to me! As a non-energetic guy, I’ll stick with my 19 bar Nespresso Pixie. So easy to get a ristretto, espresso, or lungo.

I don’t mind the process. Fresh grinding the beans and getting that aroma, making tweaks to dial everything in. It’s a hobby with a great tasting drink as the reward. I still have my CupOne for a quick and easy cup of drip coffee when I need it. I will report back when I get the Flair 58 with a workflow.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
Perhaps unfortunate, but I don't think I apply that level of rigor and sensitivity to anything in my life.

One can achieve "adequate" espresso with a lot less effort than that I've described. Plus, after you've applied the greater effort a few times, it becomes increasingly effortless. Just like somebody good at anything can make it look easy

The difference between an honest-to-God espresso machine, coupled with a good grinder, and alternatives is you can do better with the former.

You can also easily do a lot worse. And that's where things like the Pixie shine: You can achieve mediocre results with little-to-no effort.

N.B.: I use the word "mediocre" in relation to what somebody truly talented in the art of espresso can achieve with the right equipment, materials, and skill. It's not meant in a derogatory manner.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
N.B.: I use the word "mediocre" in relation to what somebody truly talented in the art of espresso can achieve with the right equipment, materials, and skill. It's not meant in a derogatory manner.

Understood. And for now, 'mediocre' may be good enough for me. I can't really afford one of the expensive machines (I looked hard at a Gaggia last time we had these threads; costs more than for what I could get for my 2000 Lexus). The Flair58 above sounds interesting - potential for good espresso with relatively cheap machine that would be reliable for years (mechanical - not much to break down in terms of electronics, etc).

Pixie may be just right for me - the mama bear of espresso. Or not - we'll see. Looking forward to reviews of the Flair58 here.

If you want a couple more easy, inexpensive options to try, you might look at a Bialetti Moka Pot (a sort of almost-espresso stovetop steam percolator thing) or an Aeropress (kind of like a very refined french press that you use with fine-ground coffee).

Neither makes a true espresso, but both can produce excellent coffee and the final product comes out closer to espresso than to normal drip coffee.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
I can't really afford one of the expensive machines ...

I spent a lot of time checking reviews before pulling the trigger on my Breville the Bambino Plus. By all accounts one can pull good shots with that.

Problem is: Not with the included pressurized portafilter basket. At least I wasn't able to do so. So then you need a grinder capable of producing a good espresso grind. Now you're going down the rabbit hole. By the time you add a capable grinder you're up to $1,000.

maladat, I know plenty of people do it, but I was never able to get a Moka Pot to work for me. The Aeropress, OTOH, is brain-dead easy. You can actually create an espresso-ish drink with it, but it's a PITA to do. I use ours to create what you'd get out of a good drip brewer.

I considered the aeropress long ago. Sounded good until I read reviews of seals breaking spewing hot coffee everywhere, including burning forearms. In any case, I ended sticking w/ french press.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
I considered the aeropress long ago. Sounded good until I read reviews of seals breaking spewing hot coffee everywhere, including burning forearms.

First I've heard of that one. (Just searched on it. Came up with bupkis. So it cannot be all that widespread.)

My wife's been using an Aeropress for four years or so. I've been using it for over two. ISTM you'd have to be pushing awfully hard on that thing to get it to "spew hot coffee everywhere."

The silicon rubber seal/gasket does degrade over time. Coffee has acids. Plus there's a degree of friction in use. (Otherwise it wouldn't be a seal/gasket.) They're cheap and easy to replace. We've done it on ours. But, even just before replacing ours, it never "spewed hot coffee" anywhere.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
In any case, I ended sticking w/ french press.

Aeropress produces the same thing, only without the mud and with significantly easier cleanup--even if you use a metal mesh filter, as I do.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

quote:

Originally posted by Pipe Smoker:
I have a Pixie (see my post above). Another advantage of the Nespresso Pixie (applies to all Nespresso machines): The capsules are hermetically sealed – the coffee keeps good for at least a year.

"Good" is a highly-variable assessment, based upon one's nose.

All coffee starts degrading as soon as it's roasted--regardless of the storage method. Even sealed, nitrogen-flushed, vacuum-packed, and ideally-stored whole-bean coffee begins to have noticeable degradation after no more than six months. (Source: SCA testing.)
<snip>

That’s one opinion. Here’s another (for some reason the link doesn’t work – sorry about that):

“Technically, it’s relatively easy to get hold of the best coffee beans, roast them at the right temperature for the right time, grind them to the right fineness, and then vacuum-seal the right quantity for one shot. From that point on, the coffee will not degrade, effectively being as fresh once the machine pierces the capsule as it was when it went in…”

www.businessinsider.com/barist...bsolete-2015-6%3famp

Another interesting snippet from that link:

“Julian Baggini wrote two years ago in Aeon magazine about how (then) more than 15 Michelin-starred restaurants in London used Nestle's Nespresso machines, as did more than 100 Michelin-starred restaurants in France and more than 20 Michelin-starred restaurants in Italy, with many others using espresso machines from Illy, Kimbo, Lavazza, and Segafredo. Those are some of the fanciest restaurants in the world choosing to use a capsule espresso machine rather than leave coffee to baristas.

Baggini held a blind taste test between a Nespresso and the espresso served by a barista in a two Michelin-starred restaurant. The Nespresso won hands down…”

quote:

Originally posted by Pipe Smoker:
"... then vacuum-seal the right quantity for one shot. From that point on, the coffee will not degrade, effectively being as fresh once the machine pierces the capsule as it was when it went in…”

The SCA and every coffee expert/authority/aficionado/what-have-you I've ever read disagrees with Business Insider.

By all accounts I've read: Vacuum-packed ground coffee can remain "fresh" for up to six months. Vacuum-packed and frozen ground coffee can remain "fresh" for up to one year. Search on coffee storage. There are lots of articles on the issue.

Even Nespresso recommends their pods be used w/in 6-9 months. (I'd argue that's wildly optimistic--for a variety of reasons.)

quote:

Originally posted by Pipe Smoker:
“Julian Baggini wrote two years ago in Aeon magazine about how (then) more than 15 Michelin-starred restaurants in London used Nestle's Nespresso machines, ... Those are some of the fanciest restaurants in the world choosing to use a capsule espresso machine rather than leave coffee to baristas.

That's a relatively meaningless point. I should not have to explain why.

quote:

Originally posted by Pipe Smoker:
Baggini held a blind taste test between a Nespresso and the espresso served by a barista in a two Michelin-starred restaurant. The Nespresso won hands down…”

All that proves is Baggini preferred the coffee produced by a Nespresso machine over that produced by that barista on that espresso machine, using that coffee, ground by that grinder.

I'm not claiming Nespresso pod machines don't produce tasty coffee. Don't really know. Never tried one of those particular pod machines. What I'm asserting is that, as espresso, the result is mediocre.

In fact: As espresso it arguably doesn't even qualify as "mediocre," as the machines emulate a signature characteristic of espresso, crema, with compressed air. Even my machine with pressurized portafilter baskets creates true crema.

If you like your Nespresso machine and the coffee it produces: Fine. I'm not criticizing your choice. But what it produces arguably isn't really "espresso," per se.

Okay - overwhelmed. The Pixie came with about 20-25 different types of coffee. No joke.

I'm not going to want to order so many types in the future - maybe 2-4 types max.

What method do you guys use to rank order your coffee preferences - if you had to choose a few of your favorites, how do you do it after tasting 20-25 different types over a period of weeks (months?).

What kind of notes do you take? Or just assign some number? I'm worried that I'll end up with a dozen or so all rated 8 or 9 (for example) and I'll not know which 3 to order again because I tasted them 2 weeks ago and forgot what they tasted like other than they rated an 8 at the time....

^^^^^^^^
I did something similar to what you’re doing when I got my first Pixie (ten years ago). For each coffee that I tried I assigned a 0 -> 9 value rating, and a brief description.

Things are simpler for me nowadays: I buy “Ristretto” exclusively. I buy 40 sleeves (400 pods) each time I order.

Is there a webpage that rates and rank orders all the pods? Surely someone must have tried them all and rated them. I probably should have looked into that before ordering.

Ispirazione Ristretto using espresso setting wasn’t entirely impressive. Neither liked nor disliked. Tried it plain and with a pinch of sugar. Sugar smoothed it out a bit. I’m giving it a 5 for now as the initial baseline.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
Is there a webpage that rates and rank orders all the pods?

That's going to be a matter of individual taste.

I agree. But if they add tasting notes, it’s a start. I can compare my tasting against the list and go up / down from there.

30 pods x 2-3 settings x 2 sugars x 2 milks is a lot of testing.

Settings: ristretto, espresso, lungo
Sugar: none or pinch
Milk: none or pinch

I’ve tried 3 pods: not too interesting yet. Only espresso or lungo.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
I agree. But if they add tasting notes, it’s a start. I can compare my tasting against the list and go up / down from there.

30 pods x 2-3 settings x 2 sugars x 2 milks is a lot of testing.

First you have to know what you're looking for. Different coffees from different regions have different taste profiles. Those taste profiles are altered, in turn, by how they're roasted. (E.g.: Dark, medium, light; drum or air, etc.)

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
Settings: ristretto, espresso, lungo

Do you know what those are? Here: Ristretto vs Espresso vs Lungo: What’s the Difference & Which is Strongest?

Personally, I'd start with what your machine calls "espresso."

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
Sugar: none or pinch

It's my understanding Italians usually (?) drink their espresso with sugar in it. I know that's the way my Italian-heritage best friend used to serve it. (He'd serve it with "espresso" sugar sticks. Higher-end restaurants with proper espresso made by baristas often a small paper tube of cane sugar.)

I'm drinking mine straight until I get my shots where I want them. Then I may experiment with sugar.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
Milk: none or pinch

Not certain what you mean to achieve with "a pinch" of milk. Sounds to me like something that would needlessly complicate your research.

Just adding my 2 cents. Not in the OP's price range but I bought my daughter a Breville BES870XL for about $675 for Xmas. She uses it multiple times every day. It makes excellent espresso and has a built in grinder. She loves it and it has held up well.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
<snip>
I'm not claiming Nespresso pod machines don't produce tasty coffee. Don't really know. Never tried one of those particular pod machines. What I'm asserting is that, as espresso, the result is mediocre.

In fact: As espresso it arguably doesn't even qualify as "mediocre," as the machines emulate a signature characteristic of espresso, crema, with compressed air. Even my machine with pressurized portafilter baskets creates true crema.
<snip>

The crema is a mass of microscopic bubbles. If you think that the bubbles produced by your espresso machine are filled exclusively with steam, you’re wrong. Such steam bubbles would instantly disappear when the temperature falls below the boiling point.

The crema produced by your espresso machine consists of microscopic air bubbles, the same as the crema produced by my 19 bar Nespresso Pixie.

BTW – I enjoy your posts.