Not just no, but HELL NO.

You quote me a timeframe for work, and I agree, it needs to be followed with the following guidelines:

1. Voluntary delays are unacceptable. If another customer tries to add things to their order that will delay other people, they get either a NO or get sent to the back of the queue.

2. In the case of involuntary delays (equipment failure, fire, death in the family), I must be notified and given a choice to either wait or get issued a refund if I wish to cancel the work.

Now, if you a so inexperienced that you can't follow a set schedule or give a realistic estimate on the timeframe for a given job, I won't be giving you my money.

In an ideal fantasy world, I'd get a discount for every X weeks the work is late, but keep dreaming on that...I may as well try to charge my doctor a fee for making me sit on my ass an hour over a scheduled appointment in the waiting room.

quote:

Originally posted by flesheatingvirus:

I may as well try to charge my doctor a fee for making me sit on my ass an hour over a scheduled appointment in the waiting room.

I actually invoiced a doctor's practice for that. I had made an appointment with an eye surgeon for initial evaluation for cataract surgery. After sitting on my ass in the waiting room for three quarters of an hour, I informed the front desk folks that I was leaving.

I received a bill in the mail for thirty-five bucks, for missed appointment. I responded with an invoice for my wasted time at $175.00 / hour, four hour minimum. I never heard anything back; they did not try to collect the $35 that they had billed me.

quote:

Originally posted by cas:

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:
I wonder if anyone ever died while waiting for their custom gun to be completed. Serious question.

I've heard of both customers and gunsmiths, more than a few times.

There was a guy on FAL files, Dunk RD, did really nice work to. His ex-wife had to try and figure it all back. I believed they got it all settled eventually.

The take-away from all of this is that the demand for quality gunsmithing far exceeds the supply of talent. That is a shame.

But it also means there is opportunity.

know a local guy, he is pretty good at general gunsmithing, and does SOT work too (MG's etc)


he normally has a 3 to 6 month backlog,

his biggests issues, and he has a counter person to run interference and answer the phone,

phone calls, some do get past the front desk, and take time
interns, trainees etc,
good smiths teen to venture out, and some don't really want to do it for an hourly wage, so he usually has a good smith to help for a bit,
then hires interns or newbies, and you have to stop to take time to hire, take time to train and delegate what you can , but also have to the time to make sure all works like it should and the person you hired is doing what needs to be done correctly, and timely

takes time also when Joe Bob the customer comes in, having to do the meet and greet type of hand off, etc etc,

not to mention the small room full of guns he has, where Joe Bob wanted this old POS single shot shotgun fixed, or the old 22 that he shot his first squirrel with, only to realize, despite being told , the cost in manhours alone is more that could ever be recovered,


know another guy that was quite famous in this area for his shotgun work, and now does smokeless muzzleloaders almost exclusively,

he was a bit crusty, did fantastic work, and it took a bit of time but nothing like mentioned elsewhere in this thread, but he would also tell you to go get fucked,

many a hunter walked into his shop in the years past and asked him to fix the hunting shotgun or rifle the week or day before season opened,
only to have him ask when did it break? knowing damn good well it broke last season,
and he would suggest, in a not to subtle way, to insert that shotgun into the customers rectum and maybe it would fix itself by next season

I am trying to be patient. I am having an RMR cut into my Glock 23. I was told, since its my EDC, that it would just be a few days. he showed me the tray where he already had a Glock slide in the jig about to cut an RMR for another client.
I know CNC, I know he just calls up a program and it runs it and even changes the bits for him.

I went by today with a friend who is also getting some work done. my tray is still sitting there, next to the other guys glock. He just stated he was busy.
It has been a month. I am going to give it another week and just go pick it up.

A) A big help may be a gun focused phone/office support.

B) Most parts operations are tiny.

Think “Billy Bob in a shed,” but Billy Bob is a brilliant, obsessive machinist, who makes what he wants to make, to an incredible quality standard….

Who then gets poached by aerospace/energy/.mil/someone who can pay real money.

C) Even the manufacturers cannot meet demand. Try getting a Ti cylinder out of S&W/getting them to answer the phone.

I haven’t shot one, but my plan for revolvers is to go to Manhurin/Korth.

I have some amazing customs. The best ones are by builders who start with either metal or generic mass produced parts. (SVI/Triangle Shooting Sports.)

They were also the most on the ball on delivery.

I haven’t run any of my custom revolvers to the point where they need work, but trying to get them maintained will be a pain.

quote:

Originally posted by redstone:
I am trying to be patient. I am having an RMR cut into my Glock 23. I was told, since its my EDC, that it would just be a few days. he showed me the tray where he already had a Glock slide in the jig about to cut an RMR for another client.
I know CNC, I know he just calls up a program and it runs it and even changes the bits for him.

I went by today with a friend who is also getting some work done. my tray is still sitting there, next to the other guys glock. He just stated he was busy.
It has been a month. I am going to give it another week and just go pick it up.

I think GlockStore is a 10 day turnaround. C&H is four weeks. Wager Machine is 3-5 days. All of these guys are pretty competitive on price.

I've seen several of the very in demand custom guys (especially the guys doing full house builds) overpromise on lead times and some of them essentially run their lead times out so far that they end up essentially being considered conmen. It's too bad. I can't remember the holster maker I saw recently who is shutting down and has something like $200k in paid work he can't do but does not have the cash to refund people.

Somebody else mentioned good gunsmiths being bad businessmen sometimes and I think that is accurate.

I've had very good luck overeall. My only full house gun is an Heirloom Precision BHP. It took almost a year (back when they were only a year out) but they did not collect payment until it was done. I've had several guns modified (porting, optic cuts, refinishing, etc.) over the years and almost all of them have been roughly on time.

My only negative experience was with Vang Comp. They quoted me work on an 870 with an approximate lead time (I can't recall how long). That came and went. I would email them and get replies about how it was in progress or coming up in the queue or whatever. After something like two years, I made a comment on one of their instagram posts about a new product they were shipping and THAT is what got them going. Gun was done in a week after that.

quote:

Originally posted by KMitch200:
Many GREAT gunsmiths are terrible businessmen.
I had a REM700 blueprinted, new bedded Mac stock, custom barrel, custom trigger. I was quoted a timeframe of 6 months MAX.
I called after about 2 months to check progress and was told in a very pointed fashion, “When it’s done, I’ll call you.”
Well alrighty then!

I waited 6 months to the day and walked in saying, “I’ll pick up my gun NOW.” I didn’t care what stage of build it was in, I’m going to get it. He asked, “What gun was it?” I said a lefty Rem700 long action.
He says, “Oh, we were wondering who owned that. We lost your paperwork.”
It had been finished a couple of months before and now I’m picking it up in middle of summer in fu&#%ing Phoenix!

Good Lord....

I got very lucky, when CZ discontinued the Satin Stainless CZ75 B's. CZ Custom had a new one in stock, I called them and had them change the hammer, convert it from DA/SA to SAO, do a trigger job and other stuff and had it a month later. They did a phenomenal job.

A very long time ago, I had a custom pistol smith build me a USPSA Open Division .38 SuperComp race gun. (.38 SuperComp is .38 Super rimless)
I sourced all the parts, including a brand new Para Ordnance double stack/wide body frame.
I spared no expense, every single part for the race gun build was top shelf. Nowlin, Wilson, and EGW parts.

I don't now remember the quoted time, but it ended up being close to triple for the wait.
I eventually started calling the guy once a week.
The "custom pistol smith" screwed up fitting the barrel, overcutting the lower barrel lugs and had to send the brand new Nowlin barrel to an outside vendor for TIG welding on the overcut lower barrel lugs.

I did receive a completed race gun, and it wouldn't run. Failures to feed, short stroking, completely unreliable.
There was no way in hell I was sending it back to the builder and I had to figure out what was wrong with the gun myself.

The build utilized a very unique compensator, and I ended up contacting the compensator maker and asked them for recoil spring recommendations.
When I installed a 7 Pound variable recoil spring, the pistol actually ran well.
But the entire ordeal soured me on that particular race gun, and within a year or so it got sold to a buyer that sought out builds from this particular custom pistol smith.

I vowed to myself I would never endure another custom pistol smith build again and that started a decades long process for acquiring machine tools, tooling, and knowledge.

OttoSig, i feel your pain. I've been aware of the long gunsmith lead times for many years, especially where 1911 work is concerned. Seems every year there are fewer and fewer competent 1911 gunsmiths still working. Just one example; years ago I'd acquired a like new pre 70 series Colt Government, and wanted a full custom job on it. I started checking well known gunsmiths and gunsmithing firms. I soon found estimated completion times were months to years, even back then. And costs were such that I could buy a new Baer pistol, with the features I wanted, for less than the cost of the custom work. I sold the Colt and bought a Baer.

FWIW, I'd had a Richard Heinie pistol; Just excellent! I checked with him and learned it would be about 7 years before he could start on my pistol...

Again, not my money and not my time.
I guess I'm blessed that I shoot stock guns. If I want something nicer, I buy a trigger.

Maybe some of this backlog will go away now that every gun manufacturer is offering optic ready pistols.

Update in OP.

I got a "It'll be going out Friday" once, after being almost eight months into "3 months".
Friday came and went.
As did another.

I contacted them and was told by a secretary or someone... "Well, he's in Africa till the end of the month, so it obviously won't be before that."

The much hyped product/work disappointed me when it finally did show up. Stupid me, to make matters worse, this was me giving them a second chance after another issue years before.*
That was the end for me. Come to realize most of the hype was from people he knew and was friendly with, frequent customers. So yeah, he was giving them best quality work and fast turn around times. They talked him up, probably not realizing everyone else wasn't getting the same.


*That's why my attitude has changed, when people say things like "Did you give them a chance to make it right?" They had a chance to make it right, the first time, and they screwed it up.

quote:

Originally posted by DaBigBR:
...

I think GlockStore is a 10 day turnaround. C&H is four weeks. Wager Machine is 3-5 days. All of these guys are pretty competitive on price.

Yeah, I am thinking I am going to pick it up and then when I get a chance I may send it off. He is not a bad guy I think he is just falling victim to his own success. He has a real growing backlog now.

quote:

Originally posted by cee_Kamp:
A very long time ago, I had a custom pistol smith build me a USPSA Open Division...

Way back when, I guess in the early 90's, it wasn't terribly uncommon for guys to commission a custom race gun, wait a year or two to get it, only to have it be outdated and semi obsolete by the time they received it.

Had the opposite experience with a gunsmith locally. He set expectations from the beginning, told me his bench was open and he should be able to get it all done in less than a month. He was building me a custom 22 Creedmoor, doing load development, and getting dope out to 800 yards. From the day I dropped everything off until I had a fully built and setup rifle with 200 rounds of custom loaded ammo was less than 30 days.