___________________________________________ Life Member NRA & Washington Arms Collectors
Mistake not my current state of joshing gentle peevishness for the awesome and terrible majesty of the towering seas of ire that are themselves the milquetoast shallows fringing my vast oceans of wrath.
Velocitas Incursio Vis - Gandhi
The good thing is that if Plan A fails, there are 25 other letters in the alphabet.
July 06, 2026, 07:41 PM
Pipe Smoker
I’m rather hoping we can return to the The Iran War topics.
Serious about crackers.
July 06, 2026, 08:23 PM
chellim1
IRGC Fires Missiles at Ships in Strait of Hormuz
Attacks could complicate negotiations to end U.S. war with Iran
Qatari LNG Tanker Hit By Iranian Missile In Hormuz Chokepoint
A fully loaded Qatari LNG tanker was struck by a projectile near the Omani coast while exiting the Strait of Hormuz, raising fresh concerns that disruptions across the key energy maritime chokepoint could persist longer than traders had expected. Brent crude rose more than 1% to $72.76 a barrel as traders reassessed the war-risk premium in the Gulf area.
The Al Rekayyat, owned by Qatar's state shipping company Nakilat, was struck early Tuesday about 8 nautical miles east of Limah, Oman, according to Bloomberg, which cited people familiar with the matter and an alert from EOS Risk Group.
EOS said the maritime incident involved either an Iranian suicide drone or a missile strike that resulted in a fire on the Al Rekayyat. No casualties were reported.
Al Rekayyat was fully loaded at Qatar's Ras Laffan export terminal, making it the first Qatari LNG carrier targeted since the US-Iran conflict began in late February. The tanker appeared to be transiting part of the Hormuz chokepoint with its transponder off, indicating it was not on an Iranian-approved shipping route.
Following the attack, another Qatari-loaded LNG carrier, Al Areesh, made an abrupt U-turn before entering the strait and began circling, Bloomberg ship tracking data showed. Other tankers continued to sail through the highly contested chokepoint, including oil tankers and LPG carriers, using both Iran-approved and US-managed routes.
"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." -- Justice Janice Rogers Brown
"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth." -rduckwor
July 06, 2026, 08:25 PM
6guns
Iran is such a bunch of assholes! We all knew it, but still had hope. I still try to keep a glimmer of hope, but damn, it's getting frustrating.
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July 07, 2026, 10:11 AM
HRK
quote:
Originally posted by 6guns: Iran is such a bunch of assholes! We all knew it, but still had hope. I still try to keep a glimmer of hope, but damn, it's getting frustrating.
Never thought they'd give in, all the delays are to get to November and hope that Trump is lame ducked and checkmated by USA voters.
It's looking like it will take an ending similar to WWII Japan, as the political and military leaders are fanatics and will never surrender or beholden to any written contract with the West.
Nothing short of decimation of the power grids and transportation hubs will work, Trump will have to push the people into a position they revolt against the machine in the country. And even that might not be possible.
Getting Iran to a position where they can't control the strait militarily is a key, once they lose any control of that they have nothing to bargain with but human life, and they will do that as well. The country is run by religious fanatics that hate the world and want power over all of the middle east.
For now he should just keep bombing military installations, any known nuke locations and anything that allows them to be a threat in the strait.
Israel is not the only country that should be threatened by the IIRG and Mullahs agenda and thus participate in taking Iran down.
July 07, 2026, 10:14 AM
sigfreund
quote:
Originally posted by chellim1: IRGC Fires Missiles at Ships in Strait of Hormuz
And in other news, the sun was seen to rise in the east this morning.
Since the dawn of the military aviation age its pundits have predicted that air power alone could win wars, both because of its devastating physical effects, and because it would cause the enemy’s will to resist to collapse due to its psychological effects on the populace. Has that ever happened? Has any significant conflict been won by the users of air power alone without at least the credible threat of ground action?
This is what people in the 1920s assumed that air power could accomplish by itself. Note that the “bomber” at the upper left corner of the upper panel is a lighter-than-air dirigible that would be able to lay waste to our cities with impunity.*
One pre-WWII catch phrase was “The bomber will always get through,” but at what cost to the attacker and to what result? World War II saw the greatest bombing campaigns in history, with countless missions, many involving 1000 bombers or more that scattered ordnance over large areas. Air power advocates during that conflict were still preaching that sooner or later the populaces would demand the surrender of their forces if only enough bombs could be dropped, and yet that never happened.
* Cartoon by Winsor McCay, “What Could Happen—and Would”This message has been edited. Last edited by: sigfreund,
► 6.0/94.0
“I can’t give you brains, but I can give you a diploma.” — The Wizard of Oz
July 07, 2026, 12:17 PM
YooperSigs
Yes you can win wars with airpower. If you have the determination to employ it totally. Think WWII Dresden. Casualty numbers of 25K there. Or the firebombing of Tokyo. Casualty numbers in Tokyo were 100K. But... We no longer have the determination to resort to the tactics that brought our enemies to their knees.
End of Earth: 2 Miles Upper Peninsula: 4 Miles
July 07, 2026, 12:22 PM
sigfreund
quote:
Originally posted by YooperSigs: Think WWII Dresden. Or the firebombing of Tokyo.
Did either cause the German or Japanese people to demand (and compel) the surrender of their military forces? Nope. Both actions killed vast numbers of civilians, but neither had any significant effect on the enemies’ military capabilities.
The Germans were brought to their knees by the invasion and occupation of their country by the Americans, British, Canadians (et. al), French, and Russians (in alphabetical order). Air power helped a lot, but it was not the decisive factor.
The Japanese surrender was closer to an air power-alone win, but only after the US was prepared to invade their home islands. But again it was not something the Japanese people forced to happen. Even after the two atomic bombs, many in the Japanese army wanted the resistance to continue—and came close to making that happen. And of course, the Japanese were threatened with the possibility of the home islands’ being invaded and occupied only because of nearly three years of America’s ground activities that resulted in the invasion and occupation of other territories.
► 6.0/94.0
“I can’t give you brains, but I can give you a diploma.” — The Wizard of Oz
July 07, 2026, 12:31 PM
abnmacv
Trump had the chance, with Israel, to knock out Iran's capacity to sell energy that would have put the war on a US victory path. That step was not taken instead DJT chose to negotiate with Iran's position the same as it has been for decades "Death to America." The US's lame response has Iran in the driver seat. Whoever Trump's advisors on the Middle East are uneducated on the subject of Iran. Unending negotiations to follow that will yield a more powerful Iran. Wonder how many Iranian assets entered the US during Biden's open borders free-for-all?
U.S. Army 11F4P Vietnam 69-70 NRA Life Member
July 07, 2026, 02:15 PM
chellim1
Eurasia Group analyst Gregory Brew warned that at least three vessels were attacked in the Hormuz over the last 24 hours, with the possibility that as many as five ships were struck in the strait. "Traffic is continuing but has gone dark, with ships switching off AIS."
Brew noted, "Hard to see how US can let this stand--reckon some kind of kinetic response is coming."
Bloomberg commodities expert Javier Blas noted that while Iran attacked at least three tankers in the Strait of Hormuz today, it was simultaneously loading its own tankers at Kharg Island, the country's key energy export hub.
"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." -- Justice Janice Rogers Brown
"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth." -rduckwor
July 07, 2026, 02:43 PM
reloader-1
I’ve made the point, and will make it again, that Trump has received very poor intelligence on a variety of things in his presidency, from tariffs to immigration to Iran to Venezuela.
The general concept is sound, but the execution so flawed/the strategy so at odds with the reality that some preliminary progress is made, but by losing the war.
It’s like Lee invading Pennsylvania, or Zelensky in Kursk - not a bad idea, but overall hurting your efforts more than helping.
Hindsight is 20:20, but here are the examples:
1. Immigration - shut the borders, and advance legislation/EO to punish those employing illegal workers. Crack down hard on those, make a few examples, while flying out the deportees. Avoid ICE in masks, don’t give easy political points to the opposition. Make them defend convicted criminals, not mom on the corner selling tacos.
2. Tariffs - brilliant idea, but focus it first and foremost on China. Germany or France are not an export threat to the US, etc… the tariffs are on China, with a clause that if your country imports from China, the tariff in 2027 is the percentage of your GDP that those imports represent (or something similar). Give countries time to decouple, don’t make enemies of the whole world when there is a clear goal.
3. Venezuela - there’s a strong, solid opposition (who won the election!). Support her, don’t redo the Bay of Pigs. A strong, solid ally controlling the world’s largest oil reserves would change geopolitics completely.
4. Iran - subject of this thread. Ultimatum, if Iran does not open and keep open the Straits within 10 days, all oil facilities are targets. Eliminate their ability to make money, to export crude, to do anything on the geopolitical stage… and it also hurts China, the #1 recipient of oil from Iran.
July 07, 2026, 03:35 PM
Fly-Sig
Iran may be playing this low level game of striking vessels in the Strait of Hormuz as both a provocation to get Trump to strike back, and as a way to placate internal factions. If Trump strikes back with severity it could derail the midterm elections for Republicans, and thus aid Iran's position when the Dem Congress takes over in January. If Trump does nothing significant to retaliate, Iran's leadership can keep claiming they're winning, a la Baghdad Bob of course, but it helps them internally.
As far as air power not being sufficient by itself to win a war, the problem may be that the civilian population is subject to only their own government's propaganda. They hear that our soldiers will eat them, or will brutalize their women, or are otherwise evil. They may wish the war would end, but they don't see their government as needing to be replaced.
The Iranian civilian population is widely in agreement with their government's theology. That is a different problem than we had in WWII with the German and Japanese civilians.
July 07, 2026, 04:16 PM
sigfreund
Government propaganda was very effective among all the major combatants in World War II.
Japanese civilians were told that Americans were literal unhuman monsters and that they would be raped, tortured, and murdered. That’s why on Saipan and elsewhere many mothers killed their children before committing suicide themselves. There are accounts of Japanese children asking occupying Americans where their horns were.
In Germany there was the secular religion of Nazism, but at least there was no belief that they would go to Hell for losing faith. There was plenty of propaganda, though, about the supposed reason for the war, i.e., that the Jews were responsible. What most Germans probably did understand by the end of the war was that Hell was way on its way to them in the form of Russians who were intent on vengeance.
What indiscriminate bombing of Britain, Germany, Russia, and Japan didn’t do, though, was break the civilian population’s spirit and resolve. As I recall, in his book The Second World Wars Victor Davis Hanson mentioned that the start of the bombing campaign of London actually changed attitudes by the British people into greater support for the war. Given their religious faith and beliefs plus the effectiveness of the government at suppressing opposition, I strongly doubt that the Iranians are any different. If I were a religious or civil authority in Iran (is there any difference?), I know exactly what I’d be telling the people about America’s efforts.
► 6.0/94.0
“I can’t give you brains, but I can give you a diploma.” — The Wizard of Oz
US Launches Strikes on Iran After Attacks on Commercial Vessels
U.S. Central Command said it has begun launching a series of strikes against Iran after it attacked three commercial vessels transiting the Strait of Hormuz.
U.S. Central Command said Tuesday it has begun launching a series of strikes against Iran after it attacked three commercial vessels transiting the Strait of Hormuz.
The military said the operation is intended to impose “heavy costs” on Iran for what it described as attacks on commercial shipping crewed by innocent civilians in international waters.
U.S. Central Command said Iran’s actions were “unwarranted, dangerous, and a clear violation of the ceasefire.”
This is a breaking news story and will be updated.
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Brent crude futures jumped more than 6% in London after President Trump told reporters at a press conference in Ankara that the tentative ceasefire with Iran is over.
"To me, I think it's over. I don't want to deal with them anymore; they're scum," Trump told reporters.
Trump says the ceasefire between U.S. and Iran is over.
"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." -- Justice Janice Rogers Brown
"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth." -rduckwor
July 08, 2026, 07:09 AM
ChicagoSigMan
Looks like Trump has finally figured out what pretty much everyone else knew months ago. JD Vance - who made the media rounds a couple weeks ago selling the obvious nonsense that the new leaders are different and see the error of their predecessors' ways - is hardest hit.
"President Trump said Wednesday that he believes his memorandum of understanding with Iran is dead after he ordered overnight airstrikes on 80 targets in response to Iranian attacks on commercial ships in the Strait of Hormuz.
“I don’t like them at all. And frankly, I think we wasted a lot of time with them, I think we should just do our business,” Trump said in his first public remarks after ordering the airstrikes.
"When asked by a reporter if the preliminary peace deal, which Trump signed at the Palace of Versailles in France June 17, was dead, the president replied: “To me, I think it’s over. I don’t want to deal with them anymore. They’re scum.”
Oil is already up 5% this morning on his comments. I imagine he was hoping he could get the Iran situation calm enough until the midterms, but it doesn't look like the IRGC is prepared to cooperate. I still remain pessimistic on this issue. It has significant potential to cost the Republicans the midterms, with all the massive consequences for the Trump administration that a Democratic Congress brings.
If Some is Good, and More is Better.....then Too Much, is Just Enough !! Trump 47....Making America Great Again! "May Almighty God bless the United States of America" - parabellum 7/26/20 Live Free or Die!
July 08, 2026, 08:22 AM
ChicagoSigMan
quote:
Originally posted by nhracecraft: ^^ Gee, if only Donald Trump and JD Vance had your grasp of Geo-Politics and Geo-Strategic Foreign Policy...
How about if instead of making cheap, snarky (and unoriginal) remarks, you make a case for the current policy and explain how it is correct and successful???
July 08, 2026, 08:56 AM
Fly-Sig
Trump can now say we did everything possible, but Iran has proven they will not honor any agreement. He is free to unleash maximum force to neutralize Iran. Prior to the negotiations, Trump's detractors said we were being too mean to the misunderstood Iranians, who just wanted domestic tranquility. Now it is proven that Iran's leadership just wants to attack and kill. They want to blackmail the world over oil.
Timing is now getting critical. Whatever Trump does needs to be finished and successful by the end of September, considering the midterms.
