I was a medic, not infantry or scout or armor, so forgive me a bit...and correct me if I'm wrong.
Here's what worked in WWII. Armor and infantry. Marching through the country and taking everything in the way. IMO, that's what we need to do in Iran. Yes, it is going to cost lives, but this is a war that has been brewing for nearly fifty years and it is time to end it. Insert them through the Bandar Abbas (or further south) area and head north killing everything in sight. Take this country with no prisoners.
That is where we have failed in the past conflicts. We inserted teams and played whack-a mole (God I had that term), and failed to gain any ground.
Roll them MFers. Armor and infantry and be done with it once and for all.
________________________________________________________ It is long past time for a Convention of States. The Founding Fathers gave us this tool to fix an out of control government and we need to use it.
July 18, 2026, 10:14 PM
reloader-1
Eliminating Iran’s ability to make money - the MOU granted them the time to make $6bn USD in oil sales - is critical.
I’m aligned with bombing every bit of infrastructure that they can utilize to extract and ship oil; Kharg island, ports, depots etc.
@Gustofer, war has changed immeasurably just in the last couple of years. Boots on the ground will lead to tens of thousands of US casualties, courtesy of cheap, Chinese made drones that they will gladly give/donate/sell to Iran.
Armor and infantry are no longer king, but targets.
July 18, 2026, 10:22 PM
abnmacv
^ Problem with that plan is the islamist fanatics will extract an enormous price in dead American. Remember in the Iraq - Iran war Iran marched children through the minefields to clear them for the infantry. It's modern warfare today use intelligence from our friend Israel and target their oil export infrastructure and financial operations in addition to any remaining military targets left. Break Iran financially would be a good start. The silly MOU took US for a ride. Doesn't cover the real issues with Iran who has been murdering Americans for half a century. US needs to wake up and start being smart in dealing with the relidgious dictarorship.
U.S. Army 11F4P Vietnam 69-70 NRA Life Member
July 19, 2026, 03:13 AM
Skins2881
I still don't think this MOU is a good agreement. Maybe you guys can further tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about. Maybe toss an insult or two for good measure.
Jesse
Sic Semper Tyrannis
July 19, 2026, 06:31 AM
tsmccull
quote:
Originally posted by Skins2881: I still don't think this MOU is a good agreement. Maybe you guys can further tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about. Maybe toss an insult or two for good measure.
Didn’t the Iranians say yesterday that they’re done with the MOU and they won’t be doing any more talking with the US - no way, no how, never again? (No insults, BTW).
July 19, 2026, 07:30 AM
lastmanstanding
The Iranians are obfuscating everything. We don't even know if the people we are negotiating with actually control anything. They are masters at buying time and that's all the MOU did. And you can end this by an air war only. You just need to drop the right kind of bombs.
"Fixed fortifications are monuments to mans stupidity" - George S. Patton
July 19, 2026, 07:34 AM
nhtagmember
The MOU was only an agreement to talk in the future if certain conditions were met.
It wasn’t the document to end the war.
And the IRGC was already violating those conditions before the ink was dry.
I see it as the U.S. giving them the opportunity to show the world who they really were.
Yes it gave them a bit of time to resupply butbitvgavevus that opportunity as well.
July 19, 2026, 09:43 AM
Fly-Sig
We need to kill their leadership. All of it. Civilian, military, secret police. Go deep enough that those remaining lose interest in stepping into leadership positions.
Breaking infrastructure brings hardship to the populace but it doesn't change the beliefs of the leaders. These are religious zealots who won't be swayed by having to get future votes or who logically conclude that their victory is not possible. They believe eventual Islamic domination is promised by their deity.
Getting the citizens to rise up might be a positive side effect of breaking infrastructure, but I have doubts about what portion of the population would be genuinely supportive of a free western style society. The best we can hope for is that the general population loses all will to have an Islamist government, and then over time the future generations learn to embrace a western society.
July 19, 2026, 10:02 AM
Doc H.
As a counterargument, philosophically when in history (admittedly a short one) has an air campaign exclusively gained or kept ground permanently, destroyed an enemy completely, or resulted in victory with aims achieved for any countries at war. Again admittedly a short history (beginning in the early 19th century), so there's always the chance it might work. But it appears not to be now. And as observed, the alternatives are not good, so here we are.
"And gentlemen in England now abed, shall think themselves accursed they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks that fought with us upon Saint Crispin's Day"
July 19, 2026, 10:19 AM
chellim1
Doc H., sigfreund asks the same question, on the previous page:
quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund: As I have asked before, what major conflict in history has been decided entirely by air power? I certainly hope this will be the first, but I am not betting the rent that it will be. I would, however, bet a whole handful of nickels that no one of significance anticipated that the Iranians would be able to fight back as effectively as they have. Did anyone here?
"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." -- Justice Janice Rogers Brown
"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth." -rduckwor
July 19, 2026, 10:29 AM
reloader-1
The aims of war are different now, as warfare has evolved.
Unconditional surrender, WW2 style, is not really possible in almost any conflict; and when it occurs, the victor faces ruinous costs to rebuild and defend.
Air power can absolutely achieve the following aims:
1. Complete degradation of Iran’s ability to refine and process oil.
2. Substantial degradation of Iran’s ability to make and import conventional weapons.
3. Substantial degradation of Iran’s ability to make and launch nuclear weapons.
As for the MOU, it was absolute ridiculous; you can have a short MOU, but the carrots that were offered (oil sales) were too generous. Also, it should have been positioned as “We are giving Iran the rope to save them, or they can choose to hang themselves - their call”. Vance should never have done a blitz to say there is a new regime and we can negotiate with them.
Trust, but verify… we’ve forgotten what that meant. The messaging should have been much more cautious, including from Trump.
July 19, 2026, 10:49 AM
nhracecraft
quote:
Also, it should have been positioned as “We are giving Iran the rope to save them, or they can choose to hang themselves - their call”
It didn't 'need' to be positioned that way...It should've been assumed/understood by EVERYONE once the details were finalized and officially announced for all the world to see. It is mind-boggling how people don't understand this. Iran has a VERY Well known history, and Donald Trump is NOT at all naive on this subject!
If Some is Good, and More is Better.....then Too Much, is Just Enough !! Trump 47....Making America Great Again! "May Almighty God bless the United States of America" - parabellum 7/26/20 Live Free or Die!
July 19, 2026, 10:53 AM
bdylan
This is becoming somewhat disastrous, but we still have a little time. Hopefully, we aren't still perceived to be playing footsie with the Iranians this fall. We should probably declare the Iranian nuclear facilities sufficiently degraded and the mission complete. We can always hit them again next year or every six months forever until they learn. This timeline isn't going to work for us. At this rate, we are going to blow the midterms. Our focus should probably be on replacing the straight as a conduit for energy. No point in a deal with these people who can't really control their various factions.
July 19, 2026, 11:09 AM
chellim1
quote:
Air power can absolutely achieve the following aims:
1. Complete degradation of Iran’s ability to refine and process oil.
2. Substantial degradation of Iran’s ability to make and import conventional weapons.
3. Substantial degradation of Iran’s ability to make and launch nuclear weapons.
We were told that #3 was accomplished. I thought that was the goal? Do we now have new goals? If so, what are they?
We've already spent trillions on Middle East wars... See:
Lebanon Intervention (1982–1984): US Marines deployed as part of a multinational force during the Lebanese Civil War and Israel's invasion of Lebanon. Involved peacekeeping that turned into combat; ended after the 1983 Beirut barracks bombing.
Operation Praying Mantis (1988): US naval retaliation against Iran during the Tanker War phase of the Iran-Iraq War (protecting oil tankers; part of broader US involvement in the 1980–1988 Iran-Iraq War).
Gulf War / Operation Desert Storm (1990–1991): US-led coalition expelled Iraqi forces from Kuwait after Iraq's invasion. Large-scale air and ground campaign; also known as the First Persian Gulf War.
Operation Desert Fox (1998): US and UK airstrikes on Iraq in response to non-compliance with UN weapons inspectors.
War in Afghanistan (2001–2021): Launched after 9/11 against al-Qaeda and the Taliban. Often grouped with Middle East operations under the "War on Terror," though Afghanistan is in South/Central Asia. Longest US war.
Iraq War (2003–2011): US-led invasion to remove Saddam Hussein (citing WMDs and terrorism links, later disputed). Followed by occupation, insurgency, and civil conflict; also called the Second/Third Persian Gulf War.
Does any of this really benefit the US? We have more "wounded warriors" now than we did after World War II, which was the last war actually declared as a war by Congress.
"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." -- Justice Janice Rogers Brown
"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth." -rduckwor
July 19, 2026, 11:48 AM
6guns
quote:
We were told that #3 was accomplished. I thought that was the goal?
It was of course, but now the battle over the Strait of Hormuz is a huge complication.
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July 19, 2026, 11:49 AM
reloader-1
100% agreed Chellim.
What is the point of this conflict, and how do we seek to achieve that?
If it’s nuclear elimination, hit those repeatedly, and exit.
If it’s removing Iran’s ability to make money, bomb the oil refineries, extraction, and export facilities, and exit.
But communicate to America exactly what we are seeking to achieve, and how it differs from 60+ years of disaster in the ME.
And don’t mention that the Strait is a complication; that has to have been anticipated, and if it wasn’t, is an absolute indictment of intelligence.This message has been edited. Last edited by: reloader-1,
July 19, 2026, 11:49 AM
architect
quote:
Originally posted by lastmanstanding: They are masters at buying time and that's all the MOU did.
With their track record of lies after lies after lies, why the hell would anyone take them at their word? An MoU only works if both parties are honest and have a common Understanding of what the Memorandum intends to accomplish.
Why anyone would believe that the mullahs had any intent to honor the MoU in the first place is beyond me. Thank goodness we have a leader that is not afraid to punish these liars and weasels instead of making excuses for them as has happened too many times in the past!
The legacy of the Iraq war, especially the lives and limbs lost to IEDs would suggest using great caution in pursuing a ground war. As far as minimizing injury to civilians goes, that is not our responsibility. If Iranian citizens feel they are more at threat from their own Government than the US, it is beholden upon them to change things.
July 19, 2026, 12:27 PM
83v45magna
quote:
What is the point of this conflict, and how do we seek to achieve that?
He tells you in this video which was posted on the previous page. Clearly at least a few here didn't watch it.
The whole thing is only 9 minutes long, but if you must skip ahead, start at 4:09.
July 19, 2026, 12:33 PM
armored
We should hand the keys over to the Arab states that Iran has attacked, let them know we will help with air support but they should invade and take control of Iran, we don't want it or need it.
July 19, 2026, 01:47 PM
reloader-1
quote:
Originally posted by 83v45magna:
quote:
What is the point of this conflict, and how do we seek to achieve that?
He tells you in this video which was posted on the previous page. Clearly at least a few here didn't watch it.
The whole thing is only 9 minutes long, but if you must skip ahead, start at 4:09.
[FLASH_VIDEO]<iframe frameborder="0" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/h1ggr3HvyS4?si=pKqzfeP9V3nJPsKK&start=35" title="YouTube video player" width="560"></iframe>[/FLASH_VIDEO]
Here’s the transcript, the major issue is we did NOT have to be proportionate prior to negotiations, and our weakness there lead to today:
quote:
VICTOR DAVIS HANSON: So where are we now?
I think we can see what he's doing. The last four days, he's had very, very strong strikes. Some of his critics have said, on the right, "We are hitting all of these dock works and this small mosquito fleet and the fuel for missiles. Why didn't we do that earlier?"
Well, we didn't do it earlier because we were negotiating, and we were measured and proportionate. To deal with the Iranians now, you have to be unmeasured and disproportionate.
So what we are seeing now is a full-scale effort to destroy all of their military abilities. That would mean going to the factories, the industrial complex that makes these missiles; finding where their launchers are; finding their drone fields; clearing the corridor near the strait of all of their anti-aircraft ability, their missiles, their drones, and their small fleet of vestigial boats that they use to mine the strait and attack tankers. Clear it all out. Do this for a week or two weeks, and then stop and see if they want to concede.
If they do not want to concede, then I think you would have another week of dual-use targeting. That would mean they were going to bring in the B-2s and hit Pickaxe Mountain, seal the areas under suspicion of harboring enriched uranium, hit the bridges, hit some of the power grid, and then go home and say to our allies:
"Iran is now mostly inert. They have no air force. You in the Gulf, you have 600 combat frontline aircraft. You have missiles. You have missile defense. You can defend yourself from an inert Iran. You Europeans, Japanese, South Koreans, Taiwanese—you all want to use the strait. We don't. But we've cleaned it out now, and all you have to do is send a couple of vessels each, and under our leadership—we always have forces in the Persian Gulf. We have frigates. We have a carrier that rotates in and out. We will help you organize the ability and the willpower to keep the strait open."
And it's not going to be difficult because Iran has suffered enormous damage, and that would be in two or three weeks.
In other words, then he could pivot and say that Iran is now militarily and nuclearly inert, and we are back home, and our allies are taking part of the burden, and they're keeping the strait open.
