I've been reading about torque sticks for use with impact wrenches. They look very interesting. Anyone use them ?

I don't, but I also don't use an impact wrench to tighten lug nuts. Ever.

I would like to, but they are not accurate and get worse with age. I worked for the big 3 for a lot of years in the engineering biz, and never saw them used for serious work. The tire jocks at your local tire store use them to save time by eliminating the need to read the actual torque. Not accurate enough for real, repeatable measurement.

quote:

Originally posted by greco:
I would like to, but they are not accurate and get worse with age. I worked for the big 3 for a lot of years in the engineering biz, and never saw them used for serious work. The tire jocks at your local tire store use them to save time by eliminating the need to read the actual torque. Not accurate enough for real, repeatable measurement.

That's funny, back in the late 80s and early 90s GM sent torque sticks as essential tools. About the beginning of 2000 when the Chevy Malibu and Cadillac Catera were having brake vibration problems they sent out essential tools that included tools to finish the wheel to hub contact area as well as instructions on how to use them that specifically used a stick vice a torque wrench, remember?

Not useful for DIY. Not safe for grease monkeys. Useful in the right situation.
When I run lugs down, by the time they bottom out, my finger has been off the trigger for a while.
Hand start, 'blip' the impact, let it spin on. as long as the wheel touches/seats to the hub, I don't care if a few are finger-loose.
After that, use a torque wrench to spec. If it doesn't turn the lug before it clicks, you had it too tight.

They work great for the cig-lighter torque tools. The ones that whined up and hit, then whined up and hit again. When the socket quits turning you're GTG. I've tested this several times with a torque wrench and it was spot on.

Can be good with an air ratchet, if the air pressure is set correctly for the wrench.

ABSOLUTELY worthless with the battery operated impacts. It WILL over tighten the lug nuts! Not just a little bit, but by a lot.

Alpine, I retired from there a few years ago. I do believe that "snap-on" made a specific number of qualified tools for that and other campaigns over the years. Special tooling is usually calibrated much better than off the shelf parts to eliminate as many variables as possible. Service technicians prefer the sticks because it saves a LOT of time rather than putting a torque wrench on each lug nut. It also cuts warranty labor costs.

Over torquing those thin rotors can cause them to warp. So by getting the rear contact surfaces flat as possible and reducing warpage, the vibration issue can be reduced or eliminated.

A few years before that the Lumina sedans and coupes had a bad vibration problem . They made the factory rotors real thin and light to keep the vehicles out of the next heavier weight class. They were so thin that a real hard stop followed by water immersion warped the hell out the rotors. The best repair was not to turn or replace the OEM parts, but go get a set of aftermarket Bendix rotors (which were thicker) and fixed the issue.

quote:

Originally posted by snidera:
Not useful for DIY. Not safe for grease monkeys. Useful in the right situation.
When I run lugs down, by the time they bottom out, my finger has been off the trigger for a while.
Hand start, 'blip' the impact, let it spin on. as long as the wheel touches/seats to the hub, I don't care if a few are finger-loose.
After that, use a torque wrench to spec. If it doesn't turn the lug before it clicks, you had it too tight.

So once it's too tight and you have stressed the wheel stud and the integrity of the wheel you do what?

Torque sticks are designed like a torque wrench, once you reach the desired torque, with an impact, the stop tightening.

quote:

Originally posted by greco:
Alpine, I retired from there a few years ago. I do believe that "snap-on" made a specific number of qualified tools for that and other campaigns. Special tooling is usually calibrated much better than off the shelf parts to eliminate as many variables as possible.

Thanks, don't know who made the the tools but do know they arrived as Kent-Moore essential tools that had to be purchased by the dealership.

quote:

Originally posted by Alpine79830:

Torque sticks are designed like a torque wrench, once you reach the desired torque, with an impact, the stop tightening.

They can work with-in a specific set of parameters, however, they will quickly over tighten lug nuts when combined with a battery operated impact.

I highly recommend using a regular hand torque wrench, if all you have is a battery powered impact.

 
I use the 1/4" drive cordless impact driver to run the nuts down. It is nothing but spinning at that point. No way of overtightening them that way. Then a real torque wrench to bring them up the correct torque. If they've been to a tire shop, for any resson, I loosen them first a quarter or half turn, then torque to spec.
 

quote:

Originally posted by Excam_Man:
They work great for the cig-lighter torque tools. The ones that whined up and hit, then whined up and hit again. When the socket quits turning you're GTG. I've tested this several times with a torque wrench and it was spot on.

Can be good with an air ratchet, if the air pressure is set correctly for the wrench.

ABSOLUTELY worthless with the battery operated impacts. It WILL over tighten the lug nuts! Not just a little bit, but by a lot.

How does the air vs battery action cause the stick to misbehave ?

A few years before that the Lumina sedans and coupes had a bad vibration problem . They made the factory rotors real thin and light to keep the vehicles out of the next heavier weight class. They were so thin that a real hard stop followed by water immersion warped the hell out the rotors. The best repair was not to turn or replace the OEM parts, but go get a set of aftermarket Bendix rotors (which were thicker) and fixed the issue.
[/QUOTE]

Late 90's to the early 2000's we made a bunch of money in the parts department when GM said do not turn W Body (Lumina car, Grand Prix, Cutlass, Regal/Century) under warranty, just replace them. (I think they warped if you looked at them wrong )

I use a torque wrench on my own vehicles. I don't like the sticks.

I use them all the time on wheels, **but** use one stick down from the target torque and bring them up to final torque with a beam torque wrench. Porsche 997, BMW 550xi, Ram 1500, Mazda3. With dedicated winter wheels/tires there's a lot of wheel futzing in my shop.

I've checked *mine* with *my* air impact, and they are consistently within 2-3 ft•lbs of my calibrated torque wrench... always under.

I wouldn't use them on the airplanes though :-)

I have the Grey Pneumatic set, but if I worked with this stuff daily I'd get the AccuTorq set >>

http://www.tooltopia.com/grey-pneumatic-2805tk.aspx

http://www.tooltopia.com/accutorq-10-0323.aspx

quote:

Originally posted by wrightd:

How does the air vs battery action cause the stick to misbehave ?

You can adjust the air pressure to an air gun. They usually have you start around a 100 lbs and test them.

With a battery powered impact, you can't adjust the torque and it just hammers away at 320 FT LBS (or whatever your tool is rated at). If you could dial them down it'd be ok, but then you could end up with a loose nut when the battery started dropping voltage.

Using a smaller 1/4" drive impact to snug the nuts is ok. As long as you don't hammer them and use a hand torque wrench for final tightening.

I've played with this a lot and is the reason every vehicle has a dedicated torque wrench.

quote:

Originally posted by Excam_Man:

quote:

Originally posted by wrightd:

How does the air vs battery action cause the stick to misbehave ?

You can adjust the air pressure to an air gun. They usually have you start around a 100 lbs and test them.

With a battery powered impact, you can't adjust the torque and it just hammers away at 320 FT LBS (or whatever your tool is rated at). If you could dial them down it'd be ok, but then you could end up with a loose nut when the battery started dropping voltage.

Using a smaller 1/4" drive impact to snug the nuts is ok. As long as you don't hammer them and use a hand torque wrench for final tightening.

I've played with this a lot and is the reason every vehicle has a dedicated torque wrench.

I'll take this offline but you are saying you man an electric drill with with more torque than a ZX1 vette?

quote:

Originally posted by wrightd:
I've been reading about torque sticks for use with impact wrenches. They look very interesting. Anyone use them ?

Send me an email and I'll give you the straight scoop along with instructions.

quote:

Originally posted by Alpine79830:

quote:

Originally posted by Excam_Man:

quote:

Originally posted by wrightd:

How does the air vs battery action cause the stick to misbehave ?

You can adjust the air pressure to an air gun. They usually have you start around a 100 lbs and test them.

With a battery powered impact, you can't adjust the torque and it just hammers away at 320 FT LBS (or whatever your tool is rated at). If you could dial them down it'd be ok, but then you could end up with a loose nut when the battery started dropping voltage.

Using a smaller 1/4" drive impact to snug the nuts is ok. As long as you don't hammer them and use a hand torque wrench for final tightening.

I've played with this a lot and is the reason every vehicle has a dedicated torque wrench.

I'll take this offline but you are saying you man an electric drill with with more torque than a ZX1 vette?

Argue with DeWalt (who rated them):
Dewalt DCF889B 20V MAX Cordless Lithium-Ion 1/2 in. High-Torque Impact Wrench
•400 ft-lbs of maximum torque to perform a wide range of heavy-duty fastening applications

Per DeWalt:
http://www.dewalt.com/en-us/pr...-wrench-bare/dcf889b

Fastening Torque 400 ft-lbs
•High-power motor puts out 300 ft-lbs. of torque as well as 1,650 RPM and 2600 IPM

Per CPO Site:
http://www.cpopowertools.com/d...a45NICFdW6wAodddUJJA

quote:

Originally posted by aileron:
I use them all the time on wheels, **but** use one stick down from the target torque and bring them up to final torque with a beam torque wrench.

This works best for me.

quote:

Originally posted by Alpine79830:

quote:

Originally posted by Excam_Man:

quote:

Originally posted by wrightd:

How does the air vs battery action cause the stick to misbehave ?

You can adjust the air pressure to an air gun. They usually have you start around a 100 lbs and test them.

With a battery powered impact, you can't adjust the torque and it just hammers away at 320 FT LBS (or whatever your tool is rated at). If you could dial them down it'd be ok, but then you could end up with a loose nut when the battery started dropping voltage.

Using a smaller 1/4" drive impact to snug the nuts is ok. As long as you don't hammer them and use a hand torque wrench for final tightening.

I've played with this a lot and is the reason every vehicle has a dedicated torque wrench.

I'll take this offline but you are saying you man an electric drill with with more torque than a ZX1 vette?

Milwaukee M18 puts out 700 ft lbs of fastening torque and 1100 ft lbs of breaking torque.