And actually the voltage and amperage is completely immaterial to this discussion.

quote:

Originally posted by eltonr:
i would also like to hear a "good" reason for the tinned wire as well.

I have a '87 model sailboat, built before tinned wiring was standard on boats. I have never had a system failure due to corrosion failure of the wiring.

We had a '76 Pearson P30, and neither did we, but, before we decided to sell the boat she was scheduled for a major wiring refit--literally from stem to stern. (Let's just say I'm set for crimp terminals and heat-shrink tubing for the foreseeable future .)

The ABYC standards aren't there just for the hell of it.

Speaking of which: Do you use shore power? Is your boat fitted with a galvanic isolator? Of course you have batteries. Are the terminals fitted with fuses at the terminals?

There's a ton of electrical safety stuff like that that many older boats do not have.

quote:

Originally posted by eltonr:
yes, I agree it "could" cause problems. I just have never witnessed one.

There are a lot of things boaters have or have not done that haven't caused them problems--individually.

quote:

Originally posted by eltonr:
I know. most aviation systems use the tinned wiring. system failure at 30,000 feet would be devastating. But on a boat? or a motor home?

I can come up with lots of failure scenarios for a boat, power or sail, where an electrical system failure could prove nearly as disastrous as one on an aircraft.

quote:

Originally posted by eltonr:
it reminds me of the time I went to West marine to buy a replacement for the steaming light. (only on when under power) and the salesman tried to upsale the new LED replacement bulb. $50 instead of the $5 OEM bulb. why? because it would last longer than a standard bulb.

First of all: Apples:Oranges.

But that's not the only reason. The new LED bulbs are far brighter than the incandescent they replace.

I recall one time, coming back from an early fall race, when about a dozen of the boats were well ahead of us heading back to the club. You could easily tell the difference between boats that had upgraded their lighting from those that had not.

However, there's another issue. All navigational lighting on a boat is certified. That certification is for the emitter + fixture. To stay legitimate for insurance purposes, you can't just replace any old emitter with any old other emitter. The emitter + fixture have to be certified as a combination.

As to the tinned/plated wiring: For any hostile environment wiring I would do it wherever feasible. Without question. Also use only a proper crimp tool. This means one that applies the proper crimp for the terminal size and design, and that ratchets. Use adhesive-lined heat-shrink tubing and terminals with integral adhesive-lined heat-shrink insulation.

Use solder only where absolutely needed and only if you really know what you're doing!

What do boats have to do with this discussion ? Completely different environment . I've worked on stationary battery systems for many years where tinned wire was never specified , and this includes nuclear facilities where money was no object . It just wasn't needed . Battery systems are not maintenance free so any minor corrosion will be caught and dealt with . Do it right and the cable will probably outlast the motor home .

quote:

Originally posted by selogic:
What do boats have to do with this discussion ? Completely different environment . I've worked on stationary battery systems for many years where tinned wire was never specified , and this includes nuclear facilities where money was no object . It just wasn't needed . Battery systems are not maintenance free so any minor corrosion will be caught and dealt with . Do it right and the cable will probably outlast the motor home .

Stationary systems in a climate controlled area, of course there would be no need for tinned wire.

A mobile system, exposed to vibration, large temperature swings and condensation is a different animal. The cables start corroding at the connection where the most heat is and the corrosion works it's way up the cable. There is no getting around it and the cables are point to point on the battery bank and no spare cable to simply cut them back to good wire and put a new end on, and re-heatshrinking. You're replacing them. Weight is a big concern in a motor home (or most yachts) so it's not like you have 3'+ of extra cable on everything, all of the cables have to be fastened and properly supported.

I haven't brought boats into this discussion. I have spoken simply from an inverter standpoint. But, both have the same type of systems, usage, shore power or generator limitations, and inverter banks. Very little is different in an inverter system/bank between a boat, a house, a motorhome, etc. They all use the same components. Mounting and wiring (You don't use solid stand wiring in a boat or rv for the AC side of the inverter system like a house) is slightly different between them depending on application.

Amperage is imperitive to this discussion (and voltage) because the amount of amperage required with a system at 12 volts and 3000 watts (120 volts) is going to generate A LOT of heat in the battery cables. A 12 volt inverter bank is going to put a huge demand and heat load on the battery cables versus a 36 or 48 volt system. This is where tinned wire will shine after a short period of time. (The long run). The heating and cooling off of the battery cables will degrade non tinned ones pretty quick at this amp load in a non climate controlled environment. Best case scenario would be using 8 batteries to make a 48 volt inverter bank, and 2 batteries to make a 12 volt house bank for the house items (which I'm assuming they're at 12 volts since that is why the OP wants to stay at 12 volts. You can always use the built in battery charger to charge the 12 volt bank from the 120 volt inverter while on inverter.

Going from a 12 volt inverter bank to a 48 volt inverter bank will cut the OP's wire size requirement from 4/0 to #4 wire, and will save a ton of money in wiring costs, if it's possible to go that route and there's a lot of wiring involved (depends on how close the battery banks and inverter/charger and solar panels are all located).

Boats and Motorhomes share many of the exact same systems and same type of usage and electrical demands for the house systems (lights, freshwater pumps, toilets, extraction fans, some refrigerators, etc. etc.) are all off of the batteries (DC voltage). Usage of the AC power, and inverter bank is very similar as well, so are shore power limitations. What is available to plug into when you get to where you're going (marina or rv park). Both really frown on running a generator if shore power is available. But, shore power many times can also be limiting as to what you can run at the same time. You may only have a single 30 amp/125 volt connection or 50 amp 250 volt available and really need 2 to run most everything. Or sometimes the shorepower connections you have on your vehicle aren't enough to run everything (so might have to turn off the water heater breaker and/or 1 a/c to use the stove etc.), but the generator is big enough to carry everything.

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:

quote:

Originally posted by selogic:
What do boats have to do with this discussion ? Completely different environment . I've worked on stationary battery systems for many years where tinned wire was never specified , and this includes nuclear facilities where money was no object . It just wasn't needed . Battery systems are not maintenance free so any minor corrosion will be caught and dealt with . Do it right and the cable will probably outlast the motor home .

Stationary systems in a climate controlled area, of course there would be no need for tinned wire.

A mobile system, exposed to vibration, large temperature swings and condensation is a different animal.

Who said anything about a climate controlled area ? Most of the systems I worked on were lucky if they had a working exhaust fan . 48v Inverter bank ?? Be real .

quote:

Originally posted by selogic:

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:

quote:

Originally posted by selogic:
What do boats have to do with this discussion ? Completely different environment . I've worked on stationary battery systems for many years where tinned wire was never specified , and this includes nuclear facilities where money was no object . It just wasn't needed . Battery systems are not maintenance free so any minor corrosion will be caught and dealt with . Do it right and the cable will probably outlast the motor home .

Stationary systems in a climate controlled area, of course there would be no need for tinned wire.

A mobile system, exposed to vibration, large temperature swings and condensation is a different animal.

Who said anything about a climate controlled area ? Most of the systems I worked on were lucky if they had a working exhaust fan . 48v Inverter bank ?? Be real .

48 volt inverter banks are the most popular choice when making 3000 watts of 120 volt ac power, 36 volts would be second in popularity. They sell tons of different 48 volt inverter/chargers on EBAY/Amazon and inverter dealers elsewhere.

Just like almost all electric golf carts are 36 or 48 volts because it is more efficient.


On a motorhome or yacht, most people have a second alternator installed on the engine that charges the 48 volt bank so you can use 120 volt items all day long while underway (driving) without having to run the generator and the inverter bank gets charged.

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=n...8+v+inverter+charger

Jimmy,

Words are free.

The question is Tinned or plain? You are largely wrong.

And I stand by, voltage and amperage does not matter. Heat also, in a well designed electrical system is not even close to a issue.

For those playing along at home the SN coating is 50 microns thick.

I am only the Engineering Manager for a Division of The Worlds second largest wire and cable manufacturer, but what do I know.

So now the OP needs a 48v Inverter system and two alternators . Jesus Christ ...

Thanks for all the advice.
I already have a substantial investment in this project, I feel after reading all the suggestions posted that there are no negatives to using tinned except the additional cost and flexibility.

I will probably go with the tinned on all my battery connections, they are all in a row with little bending, and use type K or M welding cable for the runs to bus bars, fuses,on/off switch and inverter were more cable snaking will be required.

I probably would have gone all copper if it were not for the fact that the RV manufacturer ( Foretravel)used tinned wire on the OEM install,thus my posting here for advice.
The battery connections are with bolts NOT studs.
I have a hydraulic crimper to make terminal ends (copper/tinned)

armored,
Sounds like you have a good plan.

Ishootsometimes,
You have no contact email, I disagree with some of what you said and do not want to derail this thread.

quote:

Originally posted by selogic:
So now the OP needs a 48v Inverter system and two alternators . Jesus Christ ...

This really explains the lack of knowledge on your end. If you're going to come into someone's thread and post several posts with absolutely no knowledge to add to the thread, why?

A 12 volt or 48 volt inverter/charger that outputs 3000 watts 120 volts is about the same price!!!! The OP is buying an inverter/charger regardless, the only difference is which one he buys.

To get 12 or 48 volts from the same batteries the OP is buying, is determined simply by how you connect the battery cables to the batteries. Nothing additional to purchase here either. AGAIN, the same price.

The inverter charger would recharge the inverter bank from the Motor homes generator while underway, which is what he does now (run the generator) or from shorepower at the rv park. AND, most likely the OP would run the generator the majority of the time while driving to run air conditioning and other items like water heater and refrigerator which would pull more than the inverter could supply, and then shut down the generator at night and run off of the inverter when parked away from it all, so it's quiet.

Adding 1 alternator would be optional so one could charge and run off the inverter bank while driving without having to run the generator. A large enough alternator you could run a/c off of the inverter and keep the bank charged if you shut down other stuff (water heater etc.)

When spending $7k just on the batteries, plus the wiring and connectors another $1k, plus another $1-2k for a quality inverter charger, Plus $2k for the solar panels, seriously what is an extra $1k for an alternator, brackets, belt, and a few pulleys if you can't go gear driven on the alternator, and some more battery cable?

Anyways, the OP came up with a good plan which should work well for his needs.

I do plan to upgrade the alternator from the 160amp now installed to a 250amp.
Thats another story to play out later.