Thank you all for the advice and wisdom- thats why I love this forum. Im going to let him join the Den and attend/assist with weekly meeting and events- and well go from there.

So this will be my Boyd’s 3rd year in cub scouts. We just got the email last week laying out the upcoming events as we start back to our weekly meeting once school starts back.

Our pack will now allow girls to join. I am 100% against this venture!

Yeah that would be a firm “no” situation for me. It must be all boys in the Troop/Den.

quote:

Originally posted by medic451:
Yeah that would be a firm “no” situation for me. It must be all boys in the Troop/Den.

Each Den should be identified as all boy, all girl or coed. Troops cannot be coed, but often have brother/sister troops. You shouldn’t have any trouble finding an all boy Den.

Yes. But a lot depends on the local pack, leaders and sponsor organization. Ours was at our Catholic School/Church. Wonderful.

But there are also a host of alternative organizations. Scouting is certainly the most well known.

quote:

Originally posted by Milliron:

quote:

Originally posted by medic451:
Yeah that would be a firm “no” situation for me. It must be all boys in the Troop/Den.

Each Den should be identified as all boy, all girl or coed. Troops cannot be coed, but often have brother/sister troops. You shouldn’t have any trouble finding an all boy Den.

There should be no need to IDENTIFY anything there should be NO GIRLS in BOY SCOUTS period. It is that simple.

Eagle Scout here. Was in scouting from 5-18 years old.

My answer is a resounding No, and I recommend the Civil Air Patrol instead (but the age to join is 12, so you’ll have to wait a bit).

My son has had more leadership opportunities in his 3 years in the Civil Air Patrol than I had in my entire scouting career. He has had far more opportunities to be engaged in learning and he has many years to go. The culture is not like the current Scouting culture, from what I’ve seen. I joined as an adult member myself.

If your local troop is strong, I’d possibly consider it for a bit. But as far as an overall program, Scouting left the building long ago.

^^^^^
I will second CAP, though as chongo stated, you'll have to wait awhile. I was an adult member in a Composite Squadron (a squadron comprised of both youth cadets and adults) and served as the Unit Safety Officer and XO to the Cadet Commander. I served for 6 years until work and a career change took me down a different path that precluded me from staying with the program.

I enjoyed the heck out of working with the kids and seeing them develop as young men and women and learn discipline, teamwork, and individual achievement.

Check out their website for a squadron near you... https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/

When I was in, it was a "branch" of USAF. Now I believe it's under DHS...could be wrong on that.

To keep your son active and IF...IF...your local Cub Scout troop meets your parental approval, you could do Scouts until 12 and then transition to CAP. Just a recommendation...

quote:

Originally posted by 1967Goat:

The most frustrating thing about the whole experience is parents don't want to do shit. It's like pulling teeth to get them off of their asses.

In my volunteer fire department we called that the 80/20 rule, 20% of the people did 80% of the work. From other organizations I have been involved with over the years it is about the same.
In other organizations I have heard it is even less.

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:

quote:

Originally posted by Milliron:

quote:

Originally posted by medic451:
Yeah that would be a firm “no” situation for me. It must be all boys in the Troop/Den.

Each Den should be identified as all boy, all girl or coed. Troops cannot be coed, but often have brother/sister troops. You shouldn’t have any trouble finding an all boy Den.

There should be no need to IDENTIFY anything there should be NO GIRLS in BOY SCOUTS period. It is that simple.

It hasn’t hurt anything. Those that want an all-boy Den or Troop can have one. My son has never Scouted with girls, which I’m sure he prefers. On the other hand, Girl troops are starting to churn out some great Eagles, who have finally had the opportunity to receive the same mentoring the boys had. It’s a net gain for everybody.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
I have no offspring, so my thoughts can be discounted for that reason...

Very wise advice there. You'd been a better parent than 99% of the parents I know.

quote:

Originally posted by Milliron:

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:

quote:

Originally posted by Milliron:

quote:

Originally posted by medic451:
Yeah that would be a firm “no” situation for me. It must be all boys in the Troop/Den.

Each Den should be identified as all boy, all girl or coed. Troops cannot be coed, but often have brother/sister troops. You shouldn’t have any trouble finding an all boy Den.

There should be no need to IDENTIFY anything there should be NO GIRLS in BOY SCOUTS period. It is that simple.

It hasn’t hurt anything. Those that want an all-boy Den or Troop can have one. My son has never Scouted with girls, which I’m sure he prefers. On the other hand, Girl troops are starting to churn out some great Eagles, who have finally had the opportunity to receive the same mentoring the boys had. It’s a net gain for everybody.

I’ll disagree 100%. It only adds to the nonsense that there are not needed differences in what boys and girls do.
It’s all part of the overall problem we are seeing today When these large well known groups that have always been traditionally for boys or girls allow anyone to join, it just adds fuel to the fire to allow the mix wherever one goes, bathrooms, locker rooms, sports teams, the list goes on!
There are just certain things that need to remain separated and the BOY Scouts and GIRL Scouts are two of many of those things.

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:

I’ll disagree 100%. It only adds to the nonsense that there are not needed differences in what boys and girls do.
It’s all part of the overall problem we are seeing today When these large well known groups that have always been traditionally for boys or girls allow anyone to join, it just adds fuel to the fire to allow the mix wherever one goes, bathrooms, locker rooms, sports teams, the list goes on!
There are just certain things that need to remain separated and the BOY Scouts and GIRL Scouts are two of many of those things.

I don’t disagree with you. And if that was the way this worked, I wouldn’t support it. I had a bit of a ringside seat to this as the change was made in 2018 when we were in the middle of it. My daughter initially joined GSA but was bored out of her mind. She would have loved to have done the stuff my son was doing, but couldn’t join BSA, so she moved on to other things, like sports. This as a whole was better for him, as he’s a late bloomer and she ran rings around him. He has developed nicely outside of her influence, and the wisdom of that isn’t lost on me or anyone else.

I have been satisfied at the implementation of it in BSA. One pleasant side effect has been a nice meshing of boys and girls who aren’t strictly on the same team, but are instilled with the same values. We are in the business of creating good citizens, and the more of them we create, the better for the country at large. I truly believe that.

quote:

Originally posted by Edmond:
You'd been a better parent than 99% of the parents I know.

Thanks for the good words, but I’m far from convinced of that. As is true of many people my age, much of what I know took a long time, leisure, and much thought and experience to learn. And although I know a lot that would probably benefit younger people even though I learned much of it too late to have been useful to me, it’s very unlikely that any of them would seek my advice.

Throughout most of human history the (few) surviving elders in any society were usually recognized as repositories of knowledge and wisdom that was vital to the community. The reasons for that were obvious: been there, done that, have the scars to prove it. But when things change and it becomes equally obvious that the old ways need to change, then that practice breaks down because very often much of the old knowledge and wisdom is no longer relevant. And the faster and more profound the changes, the faster the young decide they no longer need their elders’ advice.
“What do we do, Elder, about the white-skinned invaders with the thunder sticks that kill from a distance?”
“Uh …. …”
“Come, brothers. This old man is of no help. We must deal with the invaders ourselves.”

There have been few, if any, times in human history when societal and technological changes have occurred faster and more profound than in recent years, and as always the young adapt to those changes more readily than the old. And when I must ask a much younger acquaintance what “Venmo” is, it’s unlikely he’s going to be interested in my advice about raising his children. Even though Venmo is new and raising children is not, the perception of most people about what I know about either subject will be the same: “He’s just a stupid old man.”

quote:

Originally posted by Milliron:

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:

I’ll disagree 100%. It only adds to the nonsense that there are not needed differences in what boys and girls do.
It’s all part of the overall problem we are seeing today When these large well known groups that have always been traditionally for boys or girls allow anyone to join, it just adds fuel to the fire to allow the mix wherever one goes, bathrooms, locker rooms, sports teams, the list goes on!
There are just certain things that need to remain separated and the BOY Scouts and GIRL Scouts are two of many of those things.

I don’t disagree with you. And if that was the way this worked, I wouldn’t support it. I had a bit of a ringside seat to this as the change was made in 2018 when we were in the middle of it. My daughter initially joined GSA but was bored out of her mind. She would have loved to have done the stuff my son was doing, but couldn’t join BSA, so she moved on to other things, like sports. This as a whole was better for him, as he’s a late bloomer and she ran rings around him. He has developed nicely outside of her influence, and the wisdom of that isn’t lost on me or anyone else.

I have been satisfied at the implementation of it in BSA. One pleasant side effect has been a nice meshing of boys and girls who aren’t strictly on the same team, but are instilled with the same values. We are in the business of creating good citizens, and the more of them we create, the better for the country at large. I truly believe that.

This has been my experience as well. I was 100% against girls in the BSA, but Girl Scouts just didnt measure up to some girls expectations- and their parents. Our friend Jen loves doing both GS and SOA, and if it werent for the SOA she would have missed out on alot of great experiences the average American child will never get. Last year she got her Gold Award, this year her Eagle, and both Rifle and Shotgun merit badge. Shes saving up money to buy her first gun at age 18- she wants a .22 and a shotgun (she loved shooting clays). Her parents are pretty progun, but dont own any or go shooting- the SOA offered her the ability to learn safely, develope marksmanship skills, and have fun. As long as the Scouts continues to help produce good American citizens with traditional values and skills, it still has a place.

Remember it's about your son, not you. But you should certainly monitor what things they are taught, what they do, etc. If he is not really into it, then go from there.

And supplement it yourself....teach him what you learned, go on campouts, etc. My son liked going shooting with me, learning different knots, but mostly hanging out with me. So we did guy stuff, and didn't have to sell popcorn.

I will jump in. My son joined Cub Scouts as a Tiger (1st grader). I became a leader the following year, and have been a leader ever since, that's going on 9 years now. Milliron has given an excellent description of the current state of Scouts BSA, the proper name of the current program.

Just a few points:

1) I see several references to Girl Scouts. Understand Girl Scouts and BSA are completely different organizations. In fact, they don't get along with each other very well. Whatever happens or happened in GS bears little on what a female's experience in Scout BSA is or will be. Not saying it is better or worse, they are just separate experiences.

2) The local level, particularly the Troop or Pack level, is crucial. After a bit of searching, I found a fantastic Pack for my son to join, and when he crossed over to a Troop, we developed great relationships with strong-willed, like-minded fathers. If one actually reads the rules set by National that units must abide by, they are in fact, pretty broad, allowing for local units to tailor the program to their needs. We have exercised that considerably to provide the kind of program our boys wanted/needed. Wilderness survival, rifle/shotgun/archery shooting, primitive camping, making their own knives, etc, etc.

3) There really isn't a "diversity" merit badge. My son had to complete the new Citizenship in Society MB, which many, me included, worried would be leftist propaganda. I don't remember the details off the top of my head, but it was mostly, meh.

4) There are trends that worry me, I will not deny that. But, as has been pointed out, your child is going to be introduced to those sooner or later anyway. The great thing about scouting, over, say, your local school, is that absolutely every piece of training material, merit badges, etc, is completely open and available to the parent. Especially, if, as I would suggest, you step up and become a leader yourself. Then you know what is being taught and experienced by your son, and you have a fantastic opportunity to discuss those issues with him.

5) Scouts BSA is officially apolitical, and I have not seen any efforts to indoctrinate social or political ideas into scouts. What they are is accommodating to as many as they can be. Yes, this means homosexuals and transgenders, too. Heck, they even let in backwoods hillbilly rednecks like me. This is where I think people get uncomfortable. You have to decide, as Sigfreund pointed out, are you going to shield your child from these, "ignore that man behind the curtain," or take the opportunity share your values and perspectives with them? In my case, my son and I attended a really cool summer camp last year, and there was a "he" pretending to be a "she," a` la Dylan Mulvaney. It was a great opportunity to teach my son how to spot the frauds so he doesn't discover it in a more embarrassing way. He is not such a snowflake that he can't handle reality, I just want to be sure he knows what stepping stones to use to navigate these situations. As far as Scouts was concerned, the only thing they did special was give the tranny it's own tent. To the extent there is any political bias, my family has a game we play, "Can you spot the leftist?" Very educational. BTW, that may seem like right-wing indoctrination, but it isn't. Sometimes, the liberal is someone we know, like, and respect. Then we can have a discussion on how to get along with people we don't always agree with, and value them as individuals.

Let's switch gears and talk about what is great about being a part of scouting (probably applies at least somewhat to similar organizations).

6) They have a plethora of great training opportunities, both for youth and adults. Through my local Scouts BSA program I, personally, have:
- earned NRA rifle, pistol, shotgun, and range safety officer (RSO) certifications for the cost of the training materials. These are not just scouting certifications, they are regular NRA certs, so I can offer my own training for money, whatever. I personally don't, but I am certified to do so. If I desired a CRSO or TC certification, I could get that through scouting, as well.

- I have my CPR, Stop The Bleed, and Wilderness First Aid certifications, again, for the cost of the training materials, and the food they fed us (3-day weekend).

- I have Swim and Water rescue certification. Not sure if that means anything outside of scouting, but for almost free, I could continue on and get a Red Cross Lifeguard certification.

- there are tons of other things I could get, if I wanted. Climbing certifications, diving, boating, etc.

- any basic outdoor skill you want to know, they have training available.

7) In 6, I talked about adult leaders. Scouts can get any certification and training, as long as they meet the age requirements. Obviously, my son can't be an NRA instructor yet, but he has all the medical training and certifications.

8) Fun things hard to do outside of scouting.
- sleep under the space shuttle Atlantis.
- campout inside a zoo
- camp inside an aquarium
- learn wilderness survival and wild edibles from a recognized Native American expert
- go inside the NOAA hurricane hunter command center, and tour the aircraft that probe the eyes of hurricanes
- climb mountains on a 185,000 acre private ranch
- learn to sail a boat from Key West to the Bahamas
- learn mountain climbing from the cadre at the Ranger School without joining the Army
- many state and local parks have special provisions for scouts. Not sure how wide spread it is, but Florida State parks do, and our local county parks also have special accommodations for scouts.

9) There are such a wide variety of people in scouting, it is impossible to describe all the richness of experience that scouts get exposed to. A couple of instances come to mind. Want to earn the Engineering Merit Badge from the man that designed the largest roller coaster in the world? He is in our Council and offers that opportunity. Want to meet one of the people that hunted for Brian Laundrie (murderer) in the swamp? One of our Troop leaders arranged a visit. The list is long.

My family has absolutely found a great group of life-long friends and acquaintances through scouting, like nothing else I have come across.

quote:

Originally posted by TigerDore:
Have you heard of Trail Life USA? It may be worth looking into:

https://www.traillifeusa.com/

.

This ^^^
I'm signing my son up for TrailLife and know the guys running the program.

As a Boy Scout, an Eagle Scout, and as an adult leader, I was involved in Scouting for over 25 years plus an additional five years as an Assistant Troop Leader with the Girl Scouts. While National and your local Council set some policies, most of what your son will be exposed to in Scouting depends on the pack, troop, crew, et cetera’s local adult leadership as well as the youth leadership that is promoted by the Scouting program.

Because of that, if you decide you want him to participate, and I hope you will, you should be prepared to take an active role in that leadership and make sure your pack now and whatever whatever I’m the future stays on track. There are great opportunities in Scouting and it’s sad to see that some groups have done their best to water down the program and cheat young men* of the opportunities.

However, if the question were to be asked by someone outside of SigForum by someone who would probably drop the child off and leave each week, I would have to give a strong “No.” That’s not fair to the kids or the adults who do volunteer and, as too many cases have shown, it’s potentially unsafe as well.

*As a former Girl Scout leader practicing what I preached above for my daughters’ troop, the Girl Scout program was a number of steps below the Boy Scouts, but I contend that girls who are now allowed to join should be kept in separate units so boys can be boys and girls can be girls. With my children all having ages out, that’s why I’m no longer involved.

quote:

Originally posted by arfmel:
The only way I would let my son participate in Scouting these days, is if I was there at meetings and camp-outs with him.

That’s 100% what I was thinking. If the OP has the time to be all in from a participation aspect then go ahead and see how it turns out. If not no chance that would be happening.