I currently train at a gym for $160 month. One of the coaches is paid to clean the mats there. There are two mats each being about 600 square feet or so. They get grimy and dirty. Kickboxing, jiu jitsu and MMA are what the mats are for. Current equipment is a retail store bought Bissell unit along with some sort of Bissell product. Takes quite a while for them to clean the mats as the capacity for water & solution is maybe 1/2 gallon.

Talking to one of the coaches, he also raises dogs, I told him about my business where I have commercial grade carpet cleaning machines. Shop vac sucking power, 3 gallon capacity and a water heater to get the water to 120-150 degrees. Their machine has low vacuum power, 1/2 gallon capacity and no water heater. How hot the water is when it comes out of the faucet is as hot as it will get. I loaned the coach the machine to test out along with some disinfectant mixture. Came back a few days later and he said he liked it but he didn't like how bulky the machine is. Of course it is, you can't have all those features and expect it to be in a light and compact package.

Coach said he was going to pass on the machine. Me being me, I decided to talk to the gym owner. I'm not going to take no for an answer from someone who doesn't have the authority to say yes. One of the owners saw how much cleaner the mats were and the other gym owner exclaimed, "no more ring worm!!!"

I came up with the idea of trading my deeper clean for gym time, came home and talked to the wife about it and if she was interested in training. Their family rate is $350/month. I train 4-5 times a week for $160. My wife would likely train in kickboxing twice a week and my daughter might train in kickboxing once or twice a week. She's not really a physical activity type of kid, she's 8 years old going on 18.

Spoke to one of the gym owners tonight and told him I'd like to come in and do a cleaning myself to see how much time I'm looking at. I would provide the labor, machinery and cleaning chemicals. I would also look at cleaning their loaner gear with an enzymatic to cut the sweat & smell from students.

No question my level of cleaning is more sanitary than their current method. Gym owner said to let him know what I'm thinking is terms of times a week I'd be able to come in because he has no idea how much it would cost as they have always cleaned it themselves.

My assumption is I'd do a cleaning maybe 3 times a week. I'll ask them which days are heaviest for attendance and go off those days. Realistically, I think it would take me about 1.5 hours to clean both mats and wipe down the loaner gear.

My question for the Sig Forum brain trust: how should I value my work? In my business, I do not do the actual cleanings, I have the machines and chemicals which are rented to and sold to the customer via a retailer.

Has anyone here ever done such a barter?

I would ask how much time it takes them to clean the mats, and how much money was spent on rental and cleaning supplies.

The time it takes them to clean them would be the time I would ask to be compensated for.
If it takes them 4 hours and only takes you 1 hour to do the same amount of mat cleaning, then you ask for 4 hours of gym time, not 1. You are entitled to the benefit of better equipment and process.

If you figure the 1/2 hour for the wipe down, calculate that the same way. If it would/does take them longer, you use their number.

At the least, unless you are "preventing" chargeable gym time from a paying customer, he is not out much by trading you time for tangible service. He is actually benefitting having cleaner enviornment and that is "added value" to his customers, at a trade of hours (and very little wear and tear on his gym.

You could call around and see what professional floor cleaners charge for a small room (same area) to make the call that as many times a month to see if you are reasonable.

Hope that helps you with some ideas.

Yes, I have done some pretty good "trades", and learned from a couple of early "not so good" (for me...").

Not a lot of help but I like the idea and you should be commended for thinking about the idea.

Don't underestimate the value you bring to the table. Remember as time goes on it won't get easier to allocate the time and do the work.

Don't be overly concerned on how you think they may think about it. If you chose to do it. Make sure it is something you benefit from.

Make sure you really want to do it.

Best to you Edmond.

You’re thoughts are you think you’ll clean the mats 3 times a week and take 1.5 hours each time.
That is 18 hours a month for $350.
You are equating the work to $19.44 a hour NOT including your chemical/equipment cost and gas.
Being that you are trading services and not on payroll no taxes so maybe $23 or so an hour in comparison to if you had to pay taxes.

Would you normally work for around $20 an hour???

In my opinion 3 times a week for $350 is super low. I think I would offer to be a once a week supplement to their current cleaning for the $350 if they balk maybe twice.

How much do you charge to rent the equipment is also a large factor.

You also have a large variable that you need to factor in. Your wife and daughter at $190 a month. I don’t know your family but you say they are LIKELY to train and by your own description your daughter has ZERO desire to train.
So in the end the gym is LIKELY going to be out $160 a month maybe $200-$225 if the rest of the family gets in to it (which would be awesome).

I pay $85 a month for a family of 5 membership to the Y. That includes pool, hot tubs, classes, basketball, soccer, full gym equipment.

I think that money can be taken out of this analysis. Barter is best when both parties are free from money. An exchange of services seems equitable. But, the barter must fully define expectations and limits.

You could exchange two cleanings each week for a family membership.

But, to make things easier, you could also perform the cleanings at your home or business. The key is to have the gym purchase more mats. He has to anyway, they wear out. So, have him buy one third more than he needs. Rotate these mats into the full array of mats at the gym. You take 1/3rd of the mats home three times a week. All mats are then cleaned weekly. You don't have to move equipment or chemicals. He gets mats cleaned. You get a membership.

You just multiplied his work by a ton!

Any mat I have seen used for any actual training that is worth a damn, no way I am trying to move and transport that myself.


His equipment is meant to be transported. Mats are not.
I would try to work my cleaning schedule around my training times if I was dead set on it

quote:

Would you normally work for around $20 an hour???

In my opinion 3 times a week for $350 is super low. I think I would offer to be a once a week supplement to their current cleaning for the $350 if they balk maybe twice.

How much do you charge to rent the equipment is also a large factor.

Good points. Don't sell yourself short.

quote:

Originally posted by 4MUL8R:
I think that money can be taken out of this analysis. Barter is best when both parties are free from money. An exchange of services seems equitable. But, the barter must fully define expectations and limits.

You could exchange two cleanings each week for a family membership.

I think this is a good approach.

Is there any liability involved? Could you possibly damage the mats, or since you mentioned ringworm could somebody get ill due to dirty mats?

As it is, that liability is on them. If you take over cleaning that may fall upon you.

$350 per month for 3 cleanings a week is very low not even factoring in the equipment.

Have you checked into the hourly rate for commercial cleaning?

The barter idea is great but not at $350. 234 hours per year, that would be $17.95 per hour including your equipment. Would you normally work for that rate?

I mean... what ever it's worth to ya...

Sounds like you've done the rough math. For a few cleanings a week might be worth it. How far is the gym from you? What time a day will you do the cleanings?

If it's some weird off hour mid-night when they are closed type thing. Factor that in as a PITA for timing.

Personally, I'd prefer to to trade dollars for a service or product, in both directions with the term clearly worked out ahead of time. Price this like you would any other job, because that's what it is.

Too many possible issues in bartering like this.
If your service is truly a better value for his needs, he should pay. The same if his facility is the best value for you. Very straightforward transactions. If either one of you fail to deliver, the whole bartering deal blows up.

The only real benefit to either of you is that you're going under the radar, tax wise and the reward for the small amount isn't worth the potential headaches in my opinion.

I’d assume the value coming back to you is your membership so $160/month. Your wife or daughter maybe or maybe not showing up is maybe or maybe not giving you any value. Three cleanings a week at 1.5 hours is 4.5 hours a week. That’s 18 hours a month. For $160 which doesn’t include travel time and expense, your supplies, etc. You aren’t coming out close to even at three cleanings a week. Once a week you’re in for six hours of work for $160. Your wife actually using the facilities changes the math but don’t use that bath unless you’re sure it’s real. Supposing it is real it’s either 18 hours or six of work for $350. Maybe once a week makes sense. Three times does not. But it’s your time. We all trade our time for other peoples money. Figure out what your time is worth and proceed accordingly.

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I have bartered for my services in the past. This is how I do it in a small business setting...

Determine the rate you would charge for labor, equipment usage, supplies, and on-site service call ~ ignoring the fact you workout at this gym.

Then compare what you would normally charge for 9 cleanings (13.5 hours) a month against the gym's $350 family rate. Another way to look at this is to consider $350 family plan divided 13.5 hours of your work equals $25.92 per hour.

You need to establish your value to the owner if they were to buy your service at regular price. You also need to remind them you are providing a deeper cleaning then their current process, no ring-worm!!!

Tell the owner to provide the deep clean they are unable to replicate, you normally charge $X per month. Immediately state that you are willing to accept full family gym memberships in leu of cash and will reduce your price by $Y amount.

The more you reduce your costs above their $350 family plan, the more appealing this will be to the owner. As a service provider, what is the actual cost to the Owner for your family to use the gym? Are you using consumables such as water for showers, shampoo, towels that increases the Owner's variable costs? If not, then the Owner's only concern is their fixed costs in equipment usage and liability insurance. This will be a direct cash savings to the Owner because they will no longer need to have staff clean the mats, they will no longer need to purchase cleaning fluid, they will reduce their exposure to ring-worm on their clients.

As you work thru all of this and begin your negotiations, never reduce your price lower than what you are willing to earn for the $350 family rate plus cash. Work is work, you are entitled to be paid for your services.

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Consider your existing lifestyle, wife, kids, and if you really want to give up the time in trade.

Is it really worth $400 a month to give up 3 evenings of your time a week away from the family time, because you aren't taking it from company time, to get a free membership.

While it might seem like a good deal, even without considering the personal time loss, calculate the profit lost from using your equipment and chemicals there vs on the open market. Could it be earning more elsewhere, or how much did you not earn using those products and assets for zero real income.


If you had a cleaning staff and could send them over, and the nominal expense to you would be equal to the $400 a month fees then yes it might be worth it to work out in trade.

Committing to working after hours to clean a gym to get free membership for a company owner isn't a valuable use of assets or time. Work to get a new account or get an AR paid to cover the $400.

Figure out how much per hour your time is worth, then multiply it by how many hours it takes to clean.

I would say pass on this opportunity for several reasons. The first of which is that it severely undervalues your time. The second is the potential liability for doing the work and risking someone slipping on a damp mat, or someone having an allergic reaction to the cleaning chemicals, whatever. It’s a small risk, but it’s big enough not to take it for the value of what you are receiving in return. Lastly, I don’t think I’d want to enter into an agreement with a gym owner that’s too cheap to properly clean his gym equipment. Seriously, he knows that the current cleaning regimen is insufficient, given the whole ring worm comment, yet he still won’t spring for proper cleaning. I’d run from this arrangement.

Within reason, NEVER cut your price.

Instead, add value. Offer extra value, extra services that they need, even if they have not talked about it.

Best wishes to you Edmond.
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thought I'd toss out some other questions for your considerations...

I noticed the owner mentioned 'no more ringworm.' What sort of potential liability might you have if someone gets sick and they blame in on something from the mats?

Do you someone that can provide the service when you want to take a day off, get sick, go on vacation, etc.?

Too complicated.

There are two separate transactions:

• Your use of the gym, and
  
  
• You providing a service to them.

Each of these transactions is simple by itself, but it gets complicated when you tie them together.

A more straight-forward approach might be to run a tab for gym use, and apply credit toward that tab at an agreed rate for each cleaning. Or keep the two transactions totally separated.