Originally posted by ArtieS: I would write a blistering letter to the chief, I would bitch to my legislators, both state and federal, and I would have my lawyer write them a forcefully worded letter about my rights.
Fuck them. They approached you with guns drawn. That means they were prepared to kill you simply for existing. That is simply unacceptable, and I would make that fact very clear to them.
It's formal complaint time. If a cop draws a gun on you, and searches you, they had better fucking have PC that you committed a crime.
Obviously, without more, I can't give a full opinion about this, but I would seriously consider suing the shit out of them.
Guns are legal in Florida. No gun was seen. You have a permit for the gun on your hip. Where is the PC for searching your car?
+1. Jumpy because of all the BS protests is just no excuses for their actions. That was no "professional" action.
I concur.
~Alan Acta Non Verba NRA Life Member (Patron) God, Family, Guns, Country
Men will fight and die to protect women... because women protect everything else. ~Andrew Klavan
March 24, 2018, 07:17 PM
bigdeal
Ok, Artie pointed out one of my concerns, but I'd like to hear from our resident attorneys on each of the following.
1 - The guns drawn angle given the described circumstances seems way over the top. 2 - Search of the vehicle? On what grounds given the circumstances? 3 - Search of the wife? On what grounds?
Miami-Dade has a well earned reputation for bending the law to their needs, and this sounds like another case of just that. I have no issue with LE responding to the apparent complaint and determining what was going on, but each of the items above seem outside the boundaries of where they should have been.
----------------------------- Guns are awesome because they shoot solid lead freedom. Every man should have several guns. And several dogs, because a man with a cat is a woman. Kurt Schlichter
March 24, 2018, 07:20 PM
aileron
quote:
Originally posted by Gustofer: ^^^^ Would you believe that my incident happened in Polson?
Mine too! It just shows that life is random, and sometimes we get fucked and sometimes it's blue sky. As you know, we have 4 flavors of LEO in Polson: City, Lake County Sheriff, Tribal Police and occasionally run into MHP. I worry about the Tribal Police more than the other 3 combined.
March 24, 2018, 07:28 PM
MikeinNC
quote:
Originally posted by bigdeal:
1 - The guns drawn angle given the described circumstances seems way over the top. 2 - Search of the vehicle? On what grounds given the circumstances? 3 - Search of the wife? On what grounds?
1. They react to the call they get-not what is actually going on (ie, someone playing with some ammo and loading mags) 2. Don't need a warrant to search a car (go look it up) and I'd say they would be covered under exigent circumstances also 3. another person presented themselves into the scenario of a man with a gun call...of course they can search her purse for a gun. (if she had stayed away they would not have searched her purse)
Now, that being said, there is another way to address the call...but you have to put yourself into their position...all they have is a call about a man with a gun call....would you just saunter up and strike up a conversation with, "Good day citizen" ? Prolly not...
let's not beat up the cops who were doing their jobs of investigating crime-turns out no crime and cops go away....
the problem is that someone who called it in was frightened of a man loading magazines in a public area...(maybe not the smartest thing to do-but certainly not illegal) because that citizens was scared of a big bad gun
"Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.” Robert A. Heinlein
“You may beat me, but you will never win.” sigmonkey-2020
“A single round of buckshot to the torso almost always results in an immediate change of behavior.” Chris Baker
March 24, 2018, 07:32 PM
Dresden
quote:
Originally posted by ArtieS: I would write a blistering letter to the chief, I would bitch to my legislators, both state and federal, and I would have my lawyer write them a forcefully worded letter about my rights.
Fuck them. They approached you with guns drawn. That means they were prepared to kill you simply for existing. That is simply unacceptable, and I would make that fact very clear to them.
It's formal complaint time. If a cop draws a gun on you, and searches you, they had better fucking have PC that you committed a crime.
Obviously, without more, I can't give a full opinion about this, but I would seriously consider suing the shit out of them.
Guns are legal in Florida. No gun was seen. You have a permit for the gun on your hip. Where is the PC for searching your car?
Would you also huff and puff and blow their station down? The OP has no grounds to sue, since he suffered no damages. The OP chose to load a number of magazines, in public, in an urban shopping center in South fucking Florida. As to the search, if the OP gave consent, he gave consent. And actually, I pulled a gun on plenty of people without Probable Cause or PC as you called it. Many more never knew that the hand in my jacket had a J Frame in it when I was talking with them. None of them got pissy.
Save your outrage for something that actually means something to the Universe. Like the guy in Sacramento who got killed for holding a cell phone in his hand.
I think Ironmike handled this really well.
March 24, 2018, 07:47 PM
Ironmike57
They just did it. Just plain sight though.
quote:
Originally posted by radioman: Did you give permission for the car search or did they just do it?
March 24, 2018, 08:06 PM
Palm
quote:
Originally posted by MikeinNC: 2. Don't need a warrant to search a car (go look it up) and I'd say they would be covered under exigent circumstances also
You don't need a warrant to search a car, but you do need consent or probable cause that it contains evidence of criminal activity. Or you are searching it incident to someone's arrest, or doing an inventory search before impound. Exigent circumstances is irrelevant in a vehicle search.
3. another person presented themselves into the scenario of a man with a gun call...of course they can search her purse for a gun. (if she had stayed away they would not have searched her purse)
Of course you can't. Unless you have reasonable suspicion that the person is presently armed.
March 24, 2018, 08:07 PM
V-Tail
quote:
Originally posted by bigdeal: Ok, Artie pointed out one of my concerns, but I'd like to hear from our resident attorneys
You are aware that ArtieS is, in fact, an attorney here in Florida, where the incident took place, ¿si?
Knowing him personally, as I do, I kind of think that his posted reaction was done with a solid knowledge of Florida law.
הרחפת שלי מלאה בצלופחים
March 24, 2018, 08:49 PM
41
I would have a hard time with the guns drawn.
In past years, there have been two cases where drawn guns resulted in the person shot dead and millions paid to the family in Fairfax County.
41
March 24, 2018, 08:53 PM
bigwagon
quote:
Originally posted by flesheatingvirus:
quote:
Originally posted by ArtieS: I would write a blistering letter to the chief, I would bitch to my legislators, both state and federal, and I would have my lawyer write them a forcefully worded letter about my rights.
Fuck them. They approached you with guns drawn. That means they were prepared to kill you simply for existing. That is simply unacceptable, and I would make that fact very clear to them.
It's formal complaint time. If a cop draws a gun on you, and searches you, they had better fucking have PC that you committed a crime.
Obviously, without more, I can't give a full opinion about this, but I would seriously consider suing the shit out of them.
Guns are legal in Florida. No gun was seen. You have a permit for the gun on your hip. Where is the PC for searching your car?
Leaning towards this. They endangered your life, and for what reason?
They just wanted to make sure they got home safe that night.
March 24, 2018, 09:15 PM
bubbatime
quote:
Originally posted by ArtieS: It's formal complaint time. If a cop draws a gun on you, and searches you, they had better fucking have PC that you committed a crime.
OH SNAP, the fucking internet lawyers have showed up!!! Ahhhhh !!!
Edit - Real lawyer? Even worse.
Edit 2 - I'm a little grumpier today than usual. I'll tone it down. Sorry.
______________________________________________________ Often times a very small man can cast a very large shadow
March 24, 2018, 09:17 PM
ryan81986
quote:
Originally posted by bubbatime:
quote:
Originally posted by ArtieS: It's formal complaint time. If a cop draws a gun on you, and searches you, they had better fucking have PC that you committed a crime.
OH SNAP, the fucking internet lawyers have showed up!!! Ahhhhh !!!
quote:
Originally posted by V-Tail: You are aware that ArtieS is, in fact, an attorney here in Florida, where the incident took place, ¿si
March 24, 2018, 10:06 PM
HERITAGE
+1 on LE responding to the call they get, which may or may not reflect what is actually happening. The call from the concerned shopper likely expressed his or her fears.
OP, by "guns trained on me" were muzzles pointed at you or guns out at low-ready?
March 24, 2018, 11:56 PM
rkentm
I think you should re-title this post; “I did something totally legal today and because people are afraid of their own shadows, local LE showed up ready for a Felony Takedown...”
_________________________
"Ladies and Gentlemen - The Fit has hit the Shan!"
March 25, 2018, 12:36 AM
scsigs
I get how it's totally legal but not sure how I would feel rolling up to a store and seeing some one loading multiple mags in the the back of the truck.
Good thing it wasn't a bank parking lot.
March 25, 2018, 01:09 AM
Russ59
The OP acknowledged that it wasn’t a bright idea, albeit legal. He also thought the cops were professional.
Why the outrage?
P229
March 25, 2018, 01:25 AM
bigdeal
quote:
Originally posted by V-Tail:
quote:
Originally posted by bigdeal: Ok, Artie pointed out one of my concerns, but I'd like to hear from our resident attorneys
You are aware that ArtieS is, in fact, an attorney here in Florida, where the incident took place, ¿si?
Knowing him personally, as I do, I kind of think that his posted reaction was done with a solid knowledge of Florida law.
Actually, I did not know Artie was an attorney. Had I known that, I would have phrased my comments differently. Thanks for the info though.
----------------------------- Guns are awesome because they shoot solid lead freedom. Every man should have several guns. And several dogs, because a man with a cat is a woman. Kurt Schlichter
March 25, 2018, 01:39 AM
bigdeal
quote:
Originally posted by MikeinNC:
quote:
Originally posted by bigdeal:
1 - The guns drawn angle given the described circumstances seems way over the top. 2 - Search of the vehicle? On what grounds given the circumstances? 3 - Search of the wife? On what grounds?
1. They react to the call they get-not what is actually going on (ie, someone playing with some ammo and loading mags) 2. Don't need a warrant to search a car (go look it up) and I'd say they would be covered under exigent circumstances also 3. another person presented themselves into the scenario of a man with a gun call...of course they can search her purse for a gun. (if she had stayed away they would not have searched her purse)
Now, that being said, there is another way to address the call...but you have to put yourself into their position...all they have is a call about a man with a gun call....would you just saunter up and strike up a conversation with, "Good day citizen" ? Prolly not...
let's not beat up the cops who were doing their jobs of investigating crime-turns out no crime and cops go away....
the problem is that someone who called it in was frightened of a man loading magazines in a public area...(maybe not the smartest thing to do-but certainly not illegal) because that citizens was scared of a big bad gun
A couple things. One, I have had personal dealings with the Miami-Dade PD in the past. They are well known for 'bending' the law. I am not anti-LE, but I do not trust this particular LE agency at all given their past. Second, I have a number of friends who work for several Central Florida LE agencies, and I do not believe they would have drawn down on someone without a much better grasp of the circumstances. I'll concede that if the op concented to a search of the vehicle, then that's on him. But with no arrest, and likely a pretty good idea of what was 'actually' going on by the time the Miami-Dade officers had questioned him, my bet is they went on a fishing expedition in the ops vehicle. Again, this is right in line with the way Miami-Dade has operated in the past.
Regardless what actually happened, filing a complaint with the Miami-Dade PD is like throwing a pebble into the ocean and hoping for a tsunami. I'm glad he escaped somewhat unscathed.
----------------------------- Guns are awesome because they shoot solid lead freedom. Every man should have several guns. And several dogs, because a man with a cat is a woman. Kurt Schlichter
March 25, 2018, 02:37 AM
12131
quote:
Originally posted by bigdeal:
quote:
Originally posted by MikeinNC:
quote:
Originally posted by bigdeal:
1 - The guns drawn angle given the described circumstances seems way over the top. 2 - Search of the vehicle? On what grounds given the circumstances? 3 - Search of the wife? On what grounds?
1. They react to the call they get-not what is actually going on (ie, someone playing with some ammo and loading mags) 2. Don't need a warrant to search a car (go look it up) and I'd say they would be covered under exigent circumstances also 3. another person presented themselves into the scenario of a man with a gun call...of course they can search her purse for a gun. (if she had stayed away they would not have searched her purse)
Now, that being said, there is another way to address the call...but you have to put yourself into their position...all they have is a call about a man with a gun call....would you just saunter up and strike up a conversation with, "Good day citizen" ? Prolly not...
let's not beat up the cops who were doing their jobs of investigating crime-turns out no crime and cops go away....
the problem is that someone who called it in was frightened of a man loading magazines in a public area...(maybe not the smartest thing to do-but certainly not illegal) because that citizens was scared of a big bad gun
A couple things. One, I have had personal dealings with the Miami-Dade PD in the past. They are well known for 'bending' the law. I am not anti-LE, but I do not trust this particular LE agency at all given their past. Second, I have a number of friends who work for several Central Florida LE agencies, and I do not believe they would have drawn down on someone without a much better grasp of the circumstances. I'll concede that if the op concented to a search of the vehicle, then that's on him. But with no arrest, and likely a pretty good idea of what was 'actually' going on by the time the Miami-Dade officers had questioned him, my bet is they went on a fishing expedition in the ops vehicle. Again, this is right in line with the way Miami-Dade has operated in the past.
Regardless what actually happened, filing a complaint with the Miami-Dade PD is like throwing a pebble into the ocean and hoping for a tsunami. I'm glad he escaped somewhat unscathed.
They need to learn a few things from these cops below. Like I said, being jumpy is not an excuse for their action.
Q
March 25, 2018, 03:10 AM
chongosuerte
That is some absolute bullshit. I’d be flipping my shit.
Knowing what one is talking about is widely admired but not strictly required here.
Although sometimes distracting, there is often a certain entertainment value to this easy standard. -JALLEN
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