I’m trying to renovate my grandparents’ house which is your typical California single story raised foundation 1300 sq ft 4 bed and 2 bath that they bought new in 1962. This will be my forever home. I never plan to sell it and it will stay in the family when I’m gone hopefully. It’s unique in that I know the history of it and the only thing that has really been added to the electrical is a York AC unit, an electric garage door opener, a couple exterior security lights, and two GFCI outdoor outlets.

With the current setup (I don’t ever plan to add anything accept maybe some extra light fixtures) the load was calculated by an electrician to be 84 amps. The house has 100 amp service with the meter and main breaker located outside and the subpanel in the garage. Both are Zinsco which I plan to have replaced (yes, I know they’re a fire hazard). I think I’m going to leave it at 100a service since the house has a REALLY long service drop and would cost thousands to have the wire changed by the utility (I’d rather not involve PG&E at all if I can help it).

Right now only the kitchen, garage, and the two outside GFCI receptacles are grounded. The rest of house is two-prong receptacles (3 per bedroom, 3 in dining room, 5 in living room). The wiring in the house is all copper and in excellent shape, but most has no ground wire (just black and white).

Since I just took all the ceiling acoustic off, need to have drywall work done anyway, and want the main and subpanel changed, I’ve been considering rewiring everything. According to the electrician I’m inclined to go with re-wiring all the non-grounded outlets is about $4400. The other option given was “safely grounding” each outlet (not sure if he meant grounding to neutral or to MC) which was about $945.

Question:
I'm already spending a lot on electrical (re-wiring will push me north of $10k), but I don't want to burn my house down or create future problems. Should I...

Choices:
Just make it "safe" (Cheap option)
Bite the bullet and re-wire
Do something else

 

the house is 56 years old and you plan to have it in the family forever. i'd say bite the bullet

You are a good man. Someone has to stay in California, and you are a good man to plan on doing it.

Eighteen years ago we bought a ranch. Over the years I have done a tremendous amount of improvement (paved miles of roads, put in thousands of feet of culverts, planted acres of avocados) with an eye to dying here and leaving it my kids. Knowing what I know now about where CA is today and where it seems to be headed I would never have bought the place and I certainly would not have dumped the time, energy, effort, and expense into improving it.

Are you really sure you can stomach CA and where it is headed?

If so, and you are planning on keeping it in the family, bite the bullet and do the rewiring. It is never going to get any cheaper, and it is never going to be easier than when you have things torn apart anyway.

I'll vote Bite the bullet as you seem serious about staying, but if you aren't sure about CA, "Do something else" and head for Free America.

I'm staying. Like I said my grandparents bought the house new '62 and are both buried together not far from it. I grew up in it. My parents are both alive and live close. I'll stick out California's BS and hope someday the people of the state wake up.

Would leaving the wiring (non-grounded) and replacing all the outlets with one of these be a viable alternative?


It looks like it is technically NEC compliant if you label them as non-grounded. Cost about $500.

https://store.leviton.com/coll...?variant=23948191299

Why are you certain the service drop needs replacing?

You most likely would be able to just replace from the weatherhead down.

I asked an electrician about ours which is 100A still as well and he quoted me $3500 to replace from the weatherhead down; new meter enclosure, breaker panel etc

I showed him my service drop and how it seems to be a smaller gauge wire than my neighbors which is much thicker, he told me mine is copper and theirs is aluminum and mine could stil do 200A easily.

What kind of wiring do you have? 1962 means it could be a number of types, some better than others.

If it were my "forever home," I'd fully update the wiring. Long term it's safer, you can size the panel for possible future renovation, and one day when the house is sold, or given to family, it won't have wiring from 1962.

Being terminology-deficient, you'll most likely become confused by my morning response

I had to look this up to be sure. An electric service drop is the main electrical line that runs from the electric company's overhead lines to the service head at your house.

84 amps is dang close to 100 amps. When I took a break from my trade and sold HVAC for a long year (six, it turned out) we would not add AC if total demand could exceed 80% of available.

2nd'ing PA Sig's note, did the utility say their service cable will not accommodate 200 amps? Is the service cable to the property of the utility?

In Penna, the utility runs a cable to the corner of your house, and the homeowner owns the cable down the wall, through the meter enclosure, and into the residence.

At my house, with a 60 amp main breaker and Z-breaker box, a licensed electrician determined the service entrance cable was sufficient to install a 100amp service panel. It was obviously new; the buyer before me probably insisted it be replaced in 1990 when he bought the c.1925 row house but the contractor stopped at the panel.

Your whole house is propane or NG, and the York is your only major use of electricity? Being past peak of capacity does not leave any room for changes. Increasing efficiency of appliances will make a difference in the longer run.

I'm still a 200amp voter / rewire and replace all the receptacles.

See if Skins will chime in here. He is the expert on the subject.

84 amps is awefully close to 100 amps, granted not everything is on at the same time or even close to it.

That being said, If you're staying there for ever I'd rewire the house.

I don't know the code for this, but is it possible to put in 200 AMP panels, but change the main breaker to 100 amps to accommodate your current service, that way if you need or decide to run the 200 amp from the street you can just change the main breaker to a 200amp breaker in the panel? Personally I'd be inclined to just run 200 amp from the street and upgrade to 200 amp.

Rewire the house . In the long run it's the safest thing and gives you options for the future . It also increases the resale value down the road . A whole lot of win .

One thing to consider is that it will be cheaper now than in the future if you have to upgrade the drop to the house for any future changes.

I voted "bite the bullet".
But I was a remodelling contractor in my younger life, and a lot of the labor involved in rewiring is just the mind-numbingly simple task of physically routing the wires (probably romex). That labor does not really need to be done by an electrician, so long as the electrician plans what to do and sees that things were done properly. Then he can just hook it all up at the main box and check it. See if an electrician will work with you, you or friends do most of the grunt-labor, and that saves money.

This is the best time to do it.
56 years is along time in the life of plastic wiring, switches, and receptacles.
After the rewire, you may be able to save money on your insurance.
Price seems a little high, but we do not know the going rate for your area. Try contacting some large or medium size electrical contractors for price. Some of them have crews that do rewires. If they are not busy or you can be flexible in your time table, they may be able to give you a good price.

Bite the bullet.
How will you feel in the future, leaving the house to your child, knowing that you cheaped out on making it safe?

quote:

Originally posted by KevH:
The other option given was “safely grounding” each outlet (not sure if he meant grounding to neutral or to MC) which was about $945.

I'm not sure what he meant either, but there was a period of time where a grounded wire was used to the metal box, but outlets were still 2 prong. Thus it's possible the metal box of the outlet is actually grounded. In which case one could adapt things for 3 prong grounded.

quote:

Would leaving the wiring (non-grounded) and replacing all the outlets with one of these be a viable alternative?


It looks like it is technically NEC compliant if you label them as non-grounded. Cost about $500.

https://store.leviton.com/coll...?variant=23948191299

yes, you may have this as an option: (Warning, this was taken from an older book and may not be current or even apply to your region)



That said, I would likely pay the $4400 and get it re-done and modernized for the long haul.

What kind of wiring is in the house now? What kind of shape is it in?

I would be inclined to rewire. If you're changing out the panel I would definitely go 150 or even 200 amps. Yes, get the electric company to do a new drop. Around here the panel is swapped and approved(permitted) then the electric company will come and do a new drop.

Sometimes they will "ground" the new three-prong outlet to the neutral if there is no ground. If you have BX you can ground to the box if metal and that "should" ground to the panel. I say should because you never know what your find.

The wiring in most of the house looks pretty damn good. It's all copper, not the aluminum junk.

So I got bold with a multimeter today and decided to go explore. I removed one of the two prong outlets in the master bedroom and this is what I found:







I tested four outlets (different rooms) and an overhead light. All showed the metal boxes to be grounded.


Soooooo…..


Can I just screw a pigtail to the box and then to a GCFI in each outlet and put in an arc fault breaker for each circuit and call it a day?

Absolutely get rid of those poke and stick outlets, for outlets where the wires are held onto the outlet with screws.

Can you tell if the wire coming into the box is Romex or bx bx is aluminum cased

quote:

Originally posted by lee40215:
Can you tell if the wire coming into the box is Romex or bx bx is aluminum cased

I'm going to climb up in the attic and down into the crawl space on Friday to investigate.