Elk, 'fraid I can't make my belief any clearer than I did before when I talked about a different standard of honor between the example you continue to pose -- a monetary sale between you and me -- and the symbolic, ethical word of someone running for the world's highest office that demands constancy. I see a difference in context there that doesn't allow an apples-to-apples comparison, while you do not -- we'll have to agree to disagree.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:

quote:

Originally posted by SapperSteel:
But I point out that Mr. Cruz is also "Not Hillary", and is far more predictable and consistent in both temperament and character, as well as one who loves, honors, and obeys the Constitution.

...and Cruz is also gonna be "Not President". If you believe this, as I do, then, you have to write him off. We are past the point of "want", and deep into the realm of "dire need".

I'll believe it when it's no longer possible for Cruz to go to the nomination with 1,237 committed delegates.

Until then, it's still a horse race.

Wisconsin will make a big difference. California will make the decision.

Have fun

The real test on Cruz will be when he can't get to 1237, how he reacts, does he push on to get a contested convention and toss the voters to the wolves or, consolidate and help control the convention pushing Trump to the Nomination, or visa versa...

From what we glean off media is that he will push on, being all about himself and unable to work with others, in order to force a divide in the party and the convention. (Not that Trump isn't all about himself, you have to be to run for POTUS) but we know gopE and Cruz have had a contentious relationship

Say that happens, the RNC Delegates nominate someone besides Cruz or Trump and it doesn't matter who it is since they were not winners in the process.

What then, do we back the Delegates nomination, albeit outside the whims of the voters, being done in the proper method and rules of the Convention, just to beat Hitlery, or do we burn the house down...

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
The real test on Cruz will be when he can't get to 1237, how he reacts, does he push on to get a contested convention and toss the voters to the wolves or, consolidate and help control the convention pushing Trump to the Nomination, or visa versa...

Yes, the "vice-versa" is important, isn't it?

Who will blink?

Why is Cruz the bad guy if he doesn't blink? Isn't it the same for both Trump and Cruz?

Question: is it the better man who bows out, or is it the better man who stays in?

I honestly believe that Cruz will be better for this country than Trump will be. Yet you seem to think I'm somehow evil if neither your man (Trump) or my man (Cruz) accumulate 1,237 delegates and I continue to support my man into a contested convention. But, somehow, you're still pure as the driven snow if you continue to support your man into a contested convention?

The Republican Party is willfully committing suicide if anybody other than Trump or Cruz comes out of the convention with the nomination. The reality is that it's going to be either Trump or Cruz.

Then we will see who is the better man.

If it's Trump, you can bet that Cruz won't be positioning Mrs. Clinton for the White House. But can you say the same for Trump if Cruz emerges from the convention with the nomination? No, you can't, not at this point. Yet you still back Trump, who could well throw the Republic to the wolves if his ego is bruised? You really want somebody like that in the big chair in the Oval Office?

Is it all about ego?

Or is it all about what is best for the Republic?

It's about taking it easy.

Yes thats the point, think about this
nothing we do or say will change what
is going to happen, no reason to get all
wound up.

No I"m not taking issue with anything you or anyone else is saying, I've not said I'm pro either or con either, in fact, either is fine with me. What I don't want is the gopE making my choice for me sans all voter involvement.

So whomever is mathematically out, should bow out at that moment in time when it's inevitable.
Wouldn't you agree?

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
Yes thats the point, think about this
nothing we do or say will change what
is going to happen, no reason to get all
wound up.

No I"m not taking issue with anything you or anyone else is saying, I've not said I'm pro either or con either, in fact, either is fine with me. What I don't want is the gopE making my choice for me sans all voter involvement.

So whomever is mathematically out, should bow out at that moment in time when it's inevitable.
Wouldn't you agree?

Yes, I agree with all three of your paragraphs above.

I point out, though, that it's becoming quite likely that neither Trump nor Cruz will enter the convention with 1,237 committed delegates.

Though I'd prefer that Cruz enter the convention with 1,237 delegates, I suggest that a contested convention, as opposed to a brokered convention, is not a bad thing.

let the rest of the primaries and convention happen, and then we'll know what the deal is. Meanwhile, I am tiring of the jibber-jabber.

I haven't hitched my wagon to anyone. I voted for Rubio in the primary and would choose Cruz over Trump right now. It doesn't mean I have to demonize someone whom I am not supporting, or that I am "pro" that person simply because I am objective about their pros and cons. That is a juvenile mindset.

He just stated, on Anderson Cooper, that he is against common care and believes that the states should be in charge of education, not the federal government.

On health insurance, he has stated that he would end Obamacare and create a free market for private insurance companies, forcing them to compete openly for business. He is dead-on here.

He has also said he thinks we should take care of the poor for health insurance. He is a bit ambiguous on this part, but I am guessing he would expand medicare/medicaid? This may not be considered conservative, but his position on health care is at least as conservative as Kasich.

quote:

Originally posted by SapperSteel:

quote:

Originally posted by TigerDore:
Trump is anti-abortion, pro-capitalism, pro-strong national defense, pro-second amendment, anti-illegal immigration and pro-Christianity. . .

You left out pro-universal health care, pro-common standard government-controlled education, and pro-higher taxation. See Trump's remarks in Wisconsin yesterday.

Yup, that sure sounds "conservative" to me.

You're hitching your wagon to a mercurial entity, one who does not consider himself bound by his word.

You don't know what you're going to get with Trump. The only thing for sure is that he is delivering a "Yuge" fuck you to the establishment.

I have this hang-up about the Constitution. I love it. I consider it to be a sacred document.

I want smaller government that does LESS, is less intrusive into my life, takes less of my hard-earned resources, operates STRICTLY within the limitations set by the Constitution, and leaves me the hell alone. That isn't what Mr. Trump is selling.

Really, I cannot figure out why you guys love this guy so much. Yes, he's waving a "yuge" middle finger at the establishment. But there's a better way readily available to us.

quote:

Originally posted by TigerDore:
. . . He just stated, on Anderson Cooper, that he is against common care and believes that the states should be in charge of education, not the federal government.

On health insurance, he has stated that he would end Obamacare and create a free market for private insurance companies, forcing them to compete openly for business. He is dead-on here.

He has also said he thinks we should take care of the poor for health insurance. He is a bit ambiguous on this part, but I am guessing he would expand medicare/medicaid? This may not be considered conservative, but his position on health care is at least as conservative as Kasich. . .

You're making my point, TigerDore.

He's mercurial.

Watch him on TV, you hear one thing.

Go to his website, you read something different.

So, go ahead, reconcile your three paragraphs above with Mr. Trump's statements made yesterday in Wisconsin. Can you? Here's a clip to make it easier for you to hear him say that health care and education are in the top three responsibilities of government:



That's no conservative talking, regardless of what his website may say.

There will always be some form of health coverage for retirees and indigent or those who's jobs don't create enough income to cover the expense of the premiums not to mention the massive deductibles.

But the thing Trump is doing here is to get out ahead of the media and the D party machine which runs advertisements falsely stating that the R party wants to take your medicaid, your SS, all these things, scaring people into not voting R or to be sure to vote D so you don't loose your benefits because the evil R will take them from you.

Come to FL during the final week push, the TV and Radio are blaring the D message, "The R want to take your "blah blah blah""

Don't confuse posturing and controlling the message with the reality of work that will need to be done.

Remember in order for the Govt to do less, you'll need to do more to reverse those things in place, you can't do nothing and get something done....

Just got back from the Trump town hall at the University. I was able to get 3rd row right behind the people standing up to ask questions. I was about 14 feet from where Trump was sitting and I watched him the whole time.
I did write down my question of getting on message, but apparently the producers did not like it so I did not get called. But they had no problem putting people up regarding a lot of other topics regarding rights of different groups.

Trump did try to stay on message - create jobs, get immigration done right, unfair trade policy. But, there was way too much talk about the fight incident with his manager and other things the President does not have a ton of control of.

If anybody watches tonight I was wearing a bright blue polo shirt and sitting behind the people who will be asking questions.

Kudos to the MSNBC producers on site........they were extremely polite, funny and very accommodating.

Yes, that is the interview. Go to about the 2:30 mark and listen to the end. He clarifies his points and that is where I got the info I posted above.

quote:

Originally posted by SapperSteel:

quote:

Originally posted by TigerDore:
. . . He just stated, on Anderson Cooper, that he is against common care and believes that the states should be in charge of education, not the federal government.

On health insurance, he has stated that he would end Obamacare and create a free market for private insurance companies, forcing them to compete openly for business. He is dead-on here.

He has also said he thinks we should take care of the poor for health insurance. He is a bit ambiguous on this part, but I am guessing he would expand medicare/medicaid? This may not be considered conservative, but his position on health care is at least as conservative as Kasich. . .

You're making my point, TigerDore.

He's mercurial.

Watch him on TV, you hear one thing.

Go to his website, you read something different.

So, go ahead, reconcile your three paragraphs above with Mr. Trump's statements made yesterday in Wisconsin. Can you? Here's a clip to make it easier for you to hear him say that health care and education are in the top three responsibilities of government:



That's no conservative talking, regardless of what his website may say.

quote:

Originally posted by at-home-daddy:
...and the symbolic, ethical word of someone running for the world's highest office that demands constancy.

Trump's "word" was that he would support the nominee IF he was treated fairly.

Do you think the GOPe has been treating him fairly?

Happy Place !


Sleeping puppies ! ! !






Trump/Cruz
Cruz/Trump
Whatever it takes

Trump gets the nomination? We vote for Trump. Cruz gets the nomination? We vote for Cruz.

We are losing sight of our goals.

Calm blue ocean

I support Trump only because I think he is the only person running who will try to end illegal immigration. I do not support Cruz because he has turned into a lying politician (IMHO), & doubt he would do what he says he will, most importantly doing anything to stop illegal immigration.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Trump gets the nomination? We vote for Trump. Cruz gets the nomination? We vote for Cruz.

We are losing site of our goals.

Calm blue ocean

I don't know how many times this needs to be said before it sinks in. We are on the SAME TEAM. The country will be better off with either.

Yes and Yes!

quote:

Originally posted by SIG4EVA:

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Trump gets the nomination? We vote for Trump. Cruz gets the nomination? We vote for Cruz.

We are losing site of our goals.

Calm blue ocean

I don't know how many times this needs to be said before it sinks in. We are on the SAME TEAM. The country will be better off with either.