quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
One of "the donalds" greatest contributions is the amount of press time he's pulling away from HilRod, she's not even a consideration for news, in the wake of Trumps media machine.

At this point it makes her page 5, third row bottom of the paper and Trump Page 1.

HilRod even compared herself to Trump vis a vis hair issues, didn't even make page 5

I'm not so sure she cares about that yet. Maybe she even prefers it. She's been keeping the media at a distance anyway, and most likely sees what Trump is doing as destructive to Republicans. The more time the media spends on the circus act going on in the ring to the right, the less time they'll spend focusing on the circus act going on in the ring on the left. Eventually she'll want the spotlight, but there's plenty of time for that, after the Republicans have all insulted each other publicly and repeatedly, several times over.

quote:

Originally posted by JALLEN:

But you are a purist in an impure world where nothing can or ever will be perfect, and see things in that light.

Or, apparently labor under the mistaken belief that there are 51% of voters nationwide that agree with the bigdeals of the country. There aren't.

But they have convinced themselves that there must be some golden candidate - the second coming of Ronald Reagan, or maybe Calvin Coolidge, who could galvanize all those who agree with you, but just don't know it yet. That won't happen either.

And the worst of all them - those that would rather fiddle and watch it burn than vote for a candidate that would give them most of what they want. They'd rather have nothing than make any compromise. I realize you can't compromise away everything, but we have members here who won't compromise at all. Those people should be hit with tomahawks.

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:

quote:

Originally posted by JALLEN:

But you are a purist in an impure world where nothing can or ever will be perfect, and see things in that light.

Or, apparently labor under the mistaken belief that there are 51% of voters nationwide that agree with the bigdeals of the country. There aren't.

But they have convinced themselves that there must be some golden candidate - the second coming of Ronald Reagan, or maybe Calvin Coolidge, who could galvanize all those who agree with you, but just don't know it yet. That won't happen either.

And the worst of all them - those that would rather fiddle and watch it burn than vote for a candidate that would give them most of what they want. They'd rather have nothing than make any compromise. I realize you can't compromise away everything, but we have members here who won't compromise at all. Those people should be hit with tomahawks.

Elections are not about ideology. 75% of the people who voted for Barack Obama couldn't tell you anything about ideology or his policies. Same on the Republican side.

Elections are about sound bites, likeability, momentum, popularity and media savvy.

Each party candidate has to talk just enough policy to get their parties nomination and then it's all about those other factors. Maybe 10-20% tops could articulate policy and vote on that basis. That's being generous.

Forums like this are massively skewed to people who are interested and engaged - sign up for Facebook or Twitter, monitor for a few months and then come back and tell me I'm wrong (I won't be holding my breath).

46and2,

If Jeb wins the nomination you will see a repeat of 2008 and 2012. For me it would be the straw that breaks the camels back and I'd stay home and say fuck the GOP. I'm sick of faux republicans and moderate/liberal wanna-be pukes.

If another Bush is the best the GOP can do then they deserve to lose.

It will come as a surprise to many of you, but I happen to like Bush a lot.

I will be dammed if I would vote for any Democrat or stay home and not vote.

quote:

Originally posted by BJ Cockrider:
It will come as a surprise to many of you, but I happen to like Bush a lot.

BJ, would you prefer if Bush shaved off his rough edges for the primary, or would you prefer the full Bush treatment?

I can't speak for anyone else here, obviously, but I tend to think that most of the hard-line posturing of members here is both sincere and wishful thinking/hylerbole that is ultimately tempered by rationality, reality, and what's best for the country on election day.

this I limit to folks here, and those elsewhere of a similar frame of mind, mind you, which is likely an alarmingly small number / proportion of those legally eligible to vote in this country. we, even our most vocal and disagreeable, are well beyond the average voter.

and if one never expects and actually tries to achieve significant change or actually seeks another Reagan or Coolidge and actually articulates such, a McCain or another Bush or the like is generally the best we can hope for, which is clearly, woefully, painfully, inadequate.

I tend to think watering down the message, and compromising, too much, especially too soon, especially in how much we expect from the field of potential nominess, is a liability, and one tantamount to teaching a bright child that lazy halfassedness is perfectly fine.

our elected officials are our children, we are their parents, not the other way around, and given the extraordinary amount of bullshit that goes on in those circles - they're getting off lightly when verbal/written criticisms by random people online is about the worst they get.

we need to (figuratively) pick them up by their ears, dish out some figurative Shaken Baby Syndrome, figuratively tan their fucking asses, and (since there aren't enough conservative voters to simply let our votes speak for us) we must do so boldly, loudly, and repeatedly.

lest the rate of change in our favor continue to be as painfully slow as it currently is.

or worse.

Karl Rove and the other Chamber of Commerce establishment Republicans are counting on us conservatives and libertarians to hold our noses and pull the lever for Jeb Bush. We will bitch and moan and stamp our feet, their thinking goes, but the prospect of President Hillary will drive us to vote for Bush.

I won't be an enabler for them any more.

Just look at what has happened since the '14 landslide. Right: NOTHING. The Republican majorities have rolled over and given Obama EVERYTHING he has wanted. Boehner and McConnell are Democrats by any other name. I will only vote for candidates I believe will behave better than that. Walker or Cruz.

I won't hold my nose and vote for anybody again. Fuck Karl Rove and the RINOs.

Trump is Trump and that's why he threw his hat it the ring but I think the deeper he gets the more serious he'll become. I'm not saying I like him or that I'd vote for him but I kinda think he's going to evolve a little before it's over.

quote:

Originally posted by justjoe:
Karl Rove and the other Chamber of Commerce establishment Republicans are counting on us conservatives and libertarians to hold our noses and pull the lever for Jeb Bush. We will bitch and moan and stamp our feet, their thinking goes, but the prospect of President Hillary will drive us to vote for Bush.

I won't be an enabler for them any more.

Just look at what has happened since the '14 landslide. Right: NOTHING. The Republican majorities have rolled over and given Obama EVERYTHING he has wanted. Boehner and McConnell are Democrats by any other name. I will only vote for candidates I believe will behave better than that. Walker or Cruz.

I won't hold my nose and vote for anybody again. Fuck Karl Rove and the RINOs.

+1

I was a freshman in college in 1984 when I cast my first vote, enthusiastically, for Ronald Reagan.
Ever since.... it's been the lesser of two evils. I'm sick of it.

Every moment this cluster side show continues Hillary wins. She just stays quiet most of the time, comes up with some brilliant statement about nothing when needed and lets her Republican opponents eat their young. Trump is nothing more than a school yard bully taking up all the oxygen in the campaign and burning down the house.

quote:

Every moment this cluster side show continues Hillary wins. She just stays quiet most of the time, comes up with some brilliant statement about nothing when needed and lets her Republican opponents eat their young. Trump is nothing more than a school yard bully taking up all the oxygen in the campaign and burning down the house.

It won't be Trump's fault if Bush or Clinton are elected. It will be those that vote for them.

Don't blame him. Blame half of our population.

quote:

One of "the donalds" greatest contributions is the amount of press time he's pulling away from HilRod, she's not even a consideration for news, in the wake of Trumps media machine.

One of the other things he's done is move the talking points back to the right. The establishment wants the election to be about pandering and he's thrown that out the window.

Trump is not going to be the guy, but he's carrying the football and taking all the heat, which is great for Cruz or Walker. They will have to show up for the debates, but people will realize they are just as strong without the clown act.

quote:

Originally posted by 2PAK:
Every moment this cluster side show continues Hillary wins. She just stays quiet most of the time, comes up with some brilliant statement about nothing when needed and lets her Republican opponents eat their young. Trump is nothing more than a school yard bully taking up all the oxygen in the campaign and burning down the house.

I ^ agree, Trump is actually a TROLL, joined at the hip lately with Frank Lutz.

quote:

Originally posted by 2PAK:
Every moment this cluster side show continues Hillary wins.

Oh, horse shit.

Y'know, bullshit statements like this are one of the primary reasons why I am throttling discussion of the presidential election. I am sick of reading defeatist nonsense like you posted.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

I was a freshman in college in 1984 when I cast my first vote, enthusiastically, for Ronald Reagan.
Ever since.... it's been the lesser of two evils. I'm sick of it.

I was a college freshman in 1964, not yet old enough to vote, but since then have gotten to choose between some REAL evils.... LBJ, Nixon, Carter, BJ, and Obummer.

If you think any of the current GOP candidates represents real evil (I'll give you Trump, no quibble), you've not learned anything from the last 6 years.

You guys are playing with fire, and in the fire is the Hildebomb. While you bitch and moan that so-and-so did this, the other guy once voted for thus and so, is soft on this and that, or once said something or other you object to, the God Damned Commies are getting ready, all their voters, dead or alive, legal or illegal, straight or crooked (if you will forgive the assumption that there are any not crooked) will be voting whether they like the Hildebomb or not, because unless she is in office they are nowhere. Their present jobs, future jobs, resumes, connections, appointments, prestige, are all riding with her. Without her, they are nobodies, left to seethe in impotent inactivity for 4, 8 years or longer, suffering as God fearing Republicans have their way. Since their only principle is to win, they don't worry about which favors this or that, merely who has the best chance to win. Those other guys in the race are just window dressing, phony manipulations like everything the God Damned Commies do.

Grow up! The Republican nominee who emerges from this rabble of candidates will be the one who shows he has the support of the most voters who identify with the GOP, and some Democrats in GOP clothing. That person, whoever it is, must be supported to victory. If our voters had understood this, Romney would be President right now, and some of the outrages we have languished under, flags not dipped for heroes, rainbow lights illuminating the White House, these idiotic foreign policy moves, the danger of radical Islamic violence on our soil, constant threats of gun control, free immigration across the border and more besides, would not have occurred.

Maybe the problem isn't the God Damned Commies. Everybody knows they are evil. Maybe it's the misguided among us who consider the Bushes evil, and those like them, refuse to support any of them and thereby hand victory, and power, to the God Damned Commies!

The choice isn't between the lesser of two evils. It will always be between evil and imperfect, and it will seldom be more pronounced.

quote:

Originally posted by JALLEN:

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

I was a freshman in college in 1984 when I cast my first vote, enthusiastically, for Ronald Reagan.
Ever since.... it's been the lesser of two evils. I'm sick of it.

I was a college freshman in 1964, not yet old enough to vote, but since then have gotten to choose between some REAL evils.... LBJ, Nixon, Carter, BJ, and Obummer.

If you think any of the current GOP candidates represents real evil (I'll give you Trump, no quibble), you've not learned anything from the last 6 years.

You guys are playing with fire, and in the fire is the Hildebomb. While you bitch and moan that so-and-so did this, the other guy once voted for thus and so, is soft on this and that, or once said something or other you object to, the God Damned Commies are getting ready, all their voters, dead or alive, legal or illegal, straight or crooked (if you will forgive the assumption that there are any not crooked) will be voting whether they like the Hildebomb or not, because unless she is in office they are nowhere. Their present jobs, future jobs, resumes, connections, appointments, prestige, are all riding with her. Without her, they are nobodies, left to seethe in impotent inactivity for 4, 8 years or longer, suffering as God fearing Republicans have their way. Since their only principle is to win, they don't worry about which favors this or that, merely who has the best chance to win. Those other guys in the race are just window dressing, phony manipulations like everything the God Damned Commies do.

Grow up! The Republican nominee who emerges from this rabble of candidates will be the one who shows he has the support of the most voters who identify with the GOP, and some Democrats in GOP clothing. That person, whoever it is, must be supported to victory. If our voters had understood this, Romney would be President right now, and some of the outrages we have languished under, flags not dipped for heroes, rainbow lights illuminating the White House, these idiotic foreign policy moves, the danger of radical Islamic violence on our soil, constant threats of gun control, free immigration across the border and more besides, would not have occurred.

Maybe the problem isn't the God Damned Commies. Everybody knows they are evil. Maybe it's the misguided among us who consider the Bushes evil, and those like them, refuse to support any of them and thereby hand victory, and power, to the God Damned Commies!

The choice isn't between the lesser of two evils. It will always be between evil and imperfect, and it will seldom be more pronounced.

Another great post from JALLEN - I have nothing to add.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

quote:

Originally posted by justjoe:
Karl Rove and the other Chamber of Commerce establishment Republicans are counting on us conservatives and libertarians to hold our noses and pull the lever for Jeb Bush. We will bitch and moan and stamp our feet, their thinking goes, but the prospect of President Hillary will drive us to vote for Bush.

I won't be an enabler for them any more.

Just look at what has happened since the '14 landslide. Right: NOTHING. The Republican majorities have rolled over and given Obama EVERYTHING he has wanted. Boehner and McConnell are Democrats by any other name. I will only vote for candidates I believe will behave better than that. Walker or Cruz.

I won't hold my nose and vote for anybody again. Fuck Karl Rove and the RINOs.

+1

I was a freshman in college in 1984 when I cast my first vote, enthusiastically, for Ronald Reagan.
Ever since.... it's been the lesser of two evils. I'm sick of it.

How about Kasich? Saw him on Hannity last night. Seems like a maybe.

quote:

Originally posted by JALLEN:
I was a college freshman in 1964, not yet old enough to vote, but since then have gotten to choose between some REAL evils.... LBJ, Nixon, Carter, BJ, and Obummer.

If you think any of the current GOP candidates represents real evil (I'll give you Trump, no quibble), you've not learned anything from the last 6 years.

You guys are playing with fire, and in the fire is the Hildebomb. While you bitch and moan that so-and-so did this, the other guy once voted for thus and so, is soft on this and that, or once said something or other you object to, the God Damned Commies are getting ready, all their voters, dead or alive, legal or illegal, straight or crooked (if you will forgive the assumption that there are any not crooked) will be voting whether they like the Hildebomb or not, because unless she is in office they are nowhere. Their present jobs, future jobs, resumes, connections, appointments, prestige, are all riding with her. Without her, they are nobodies, left to seethe in impotent inactivity for 4, 8 years or longer, suffering as God fearing Republicans have their way. Since their only principle is to win, they don't worry about which favors this or that, merely who has the best chance to win. Those other guys in the race are just window dressing, phony manipulations like everything the God Damned Commies do.

Grow up! The Republican nominee who emerges from this rabble of candidates will be the one who shows he has the support of the most voters who identify with the GOP, and some Democrats in GOP clothing. That person, whoever it is, must be supported to victory. If our voters had understood this, Romney would be President right now, and some of the outrages we have languished under, flags not dipped for heroes, rainbow lights illuminating the White House, these idiotic foreign policy moves, the danger of radical Islamic violence on our soil, constant threats of gun control, free immigration across the border and more besides, would not have occurred.

Maybe the problem isn't the God Damned Commies. Everybody knows they are evil. Maybe it's the misguided among us who consider the Bushes evil, and those like them, refuse to support any of them and thereby hand victory, and power, to the God Damned Commies!

The choice isn't between the lesser of two evils. It will always be between evil and imperfect, and it will seldom be more pronounced.

Well, you are right of course.... and we actually do have a good stable of candidates this time around.

No, I'm not part of the problem because I have never surrendered. I've never pouted and stayed home...
Romney should have won, but McCain was a horrible nominee, picked for no other reason than he was the next man up.
I was disgusted when Romney dropped out of the nomination contest in 2008 soon after Super-Tuesday. He had some momentum and clearly would have been the better choice to oppose Obama.


But 46and2 is right, too:

quote:

I can't speak for anyone else here, obviously, but I tend to think that most of the hard-line posturing of members here is both sincere and wishful thinking/hylerbole that is ultimately tempered by rationality, reality, and what's best for the country on election day.

this I limit to folks here, and those elsewhere of a similar frame of mind, mind you, which is likely an alarmingly small number / proportion of those legally eligible to vote in this country. we, even our most vocal and disagreeable, are well beyond the average voter.

and if one never expects and actually tries to achieve significant change or actually seeks another Reagan or Coolidge and actually articulates such, a McCain or another Bush or the like is generally the best we can hope for, which is clearly, woefully, painfully, inadequate.

I tend to think watering down the message, and compromising, too much, especially too soon, especially in how much we expect from the field of potential nominess, is a liability, and one tantamount to teaching a bright child that lazy halfassedness is perfectly fine.