quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:

quote:

Also no tax if it is american.

I don’t believe that’s true. The IRS views precious metals as collectibles and taxes their long term gains at up to 28% instead of the normal 20% on long term capital gains. There will be another 3.8% tax (NIIT - Net Investment Income Tax) if your investment income exceeds $200,000 single or $250,000 married filing joint. Also, there’s different in charitable contribution rules for collectibles.

He may be talking about sales tax when you buy it. Many states have laws that don't allow a sales tax on American (Government issued precious metals.)

Ah. I read that as a response to bendable’s question: “If the recipients of said precious metals decide to cash it in for what ever reason, How taxable will it be ?”

When I was buying silver, gold and platinum Eagles there was no Pennsylvania sales tax.

quote:

Originally posted by 41:

WisdomTree Europe forecasts that the price of silver will reach $40/oz by Q3 2025.

Looks like Wisdomtree nailed it.

Been looking into Goldbacks which is basically gold layered between two sheets of polymer. I like the artwork and concept(seems to be expanding to more states) but the markup is sort of steep.

quote:

Originally posted by fischtown7:
Been looking into Goldbacks which is basically gold layered between two sheets of polymer. I like the artwork and concept(seems to be expanding to more states) but the markup is sort of steep.

"Sort of steep" is an understatement.

A goldback contains 1/1000th of an ounce of gold. Gold's current spot price is $3700/oz.

A goldback contains $3.70 worth of gold, yet to buy one will cost you $7.33.

That's nearly 100% premium over spot. Compared to gold bullion coins, which typically will cost you ~4-8% premium over spot for larger ones and ~10-20% premium over spot for smaller fractional gold.

So the premium on a goldback is around 5x-25x that of traditional gold bullion.

$50,000 in gold takes up less space and is easier to carry than $50,000 in silver.

Buy what you can afford and you can trade silver for gold when the GSR drops.

Buy gold and silver coins if you like them.

The best return on your investment would be had with Legos.

As has been stated before, gold is for retention of wealth; silver is for everyday transactions in the SHTF scenarios.

Silver: close 12/31/24 - $28.96; close 9/19/25 - $43.13; +48.93%

Gold: close 12/31/24 - $2625.60; close 9/19/25 - $3686.00; +40.39%

Not a bad year so far.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

quote:

Originally posted by fischtown7:
Been looking into Goldbacks which is basically gold layered between two sheets of polymer. I like the artwork and concept(seems to be expanding to more states) but the markup is sort of steep.

"Sort of steep" is an understatement.

I agree absolutely understatement is the wrong choice of words on that. I bought 1 each of the lower denomination Florida bills, they are just pretty and unique. When the goldback came out it was about $2.50 per 1 goldback. Now its up to $7.46 to 1. I would not recommend for stacking it either but I sort of have a feeling they might catch on. Everyone sort of looked at bitcoin as a fad years ago. At least here you have a currency that has some value. Just takes one influencer to make a video of making it rain using goldbacks and they might really take off. Other than the few I have for the artwork I could not see putting big money into them, but they are sort of neat.

Something amiss here. Fed 9/20 interest rate cut should have created some buying opportunities in precious metals. Not happening...as I type this

Gold - $3,782.90 - +44.08% YTD; +2.63% since rate cut
Silver - $44.37 - +53.21% YTD; +2.88% since rate cut

Now I'm not saying there's any manipulation but..........

quote:

Originally posted by pace40:
Something amiss here. Fed 9/20 interest rate cut should have created some buying opportunities in precious metals. Not happening...as I type this

Gold - $3,782.90 - +44.08% YTD; +2.63% since rate cut
Silver - $44.37 - +53.21% YTD; +2.88% since rate cut

Now I'm not saying there's any manipulation but..........

It could be saying the cut wasn’t enough to keep the economy from going into a recession. The Fed under Powell as well as the rest of the deep state such as the Bureau of Labor Statistics is doing what they can to “prove” that Trump’s policies are bad for the economy and the United States.

And I understand this is a non political thread but politics and government certainly affect investments.

quote:

Originally posted by pace40:
Something amiss here. Fed 9/20 interest rate cut should have created some buying opportunities in precious metals. Not happening...as I type this

Gold - $3,782.90 - +44.08% YTD; +2.63% since rate cut
Silver - $44.37 - +53.21% YTD; +2.88% since rate cut

Now I'm not saying there's any manipulation but..........

Manipulators are running out of juice.

I've seen some reports that small time individuals have been selling into to the price rise, and that junk silver coins are not being purchased by the retail customer, indicating that we individuals aren't the big demand nor are we causing a supply shortage. It seems, perhaps, (I am far from an expert insider!) that regular market dynamics are starting to take over from the manipulators.

If so, this rally should continue significantly higher. Or not.

Interesting times!

quote:

Originally posted by pace40:
Something amiss here. Fed 9/20 interest rate cut should have created some buying opportunities in precious metals. Not happening...as I type this

Gold - $3,782.90 - +44.08% YTD; +2.63% since rate cut
Silver - $44.37 - +53.21% YTD; +2.88% since rate cut

Now I'm not saying there's any manipulation but..........

I’ll bite. Why?

Lower interest rates will raise inflation. Don’t people buy precious metals as a hedge against inflation? With more buying, why would there be a drop in prices and thus a buying opportunity?

quote:

Originally posted by Rey HRH:

quote:

Originally posted by pace40:
Something amiss here. Fed 9/20 interest rate cut should have created some buying opportunities in precious metals. Not happening...as I type this

Gold - $3,782.90 - +44.08% YTD; +2.63% since rate cut
Silver - $44.37 - +53.21% YTD; +2.88% since rate cut

Now I'm not saying there's any manipulation but..........

It could be saying the cut wasn’t enough to keep the economy from going into a recession. The Fed under Powell as well as the rest of the deep state such as the Bureau of Labor Statistics is doing what they can to “prove” that Trump’s policies are bad for the economy and the United States.

And I understand this is a non political thread but politics and government certainly affect investments.

Trumps policies are good for business, lots of cheap money. Thats why stocks are doing well. Used to be stocks went up, Gold went down. Problem is our debt and money printing is killing the dollar and that's why Gold is going up. Dollar has been dropping against Swiss Franc and Euro. I have been following this my whole life, and I have never seen the dynamics so out of sync. So when in doubt go to tangible assets.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:

I’ll bite. Why?

Lower interest rates will raise inflation. Don’t people buy precious metals as a hedge against inflation? With more buying, why would there be a drop in prices and thus a buying opportunity?

Beats me but my best guess is that, historically, buying slows and prices drop because the Fed lowering interest rates typically signals economic stability.

Investors, meaning mostly individuals, buy something for medium to long term gains. Traders, meaning institutions and fund managers, buy for shorter term gains. Individual investors are a small influence on markets compared to traders, especially in the short term.

Interest rate movement does not predict inflation changes. Rather, in theory, Fed rate changes are caused by inflation changes. Reducing the Fed rates should stimulate the economy, but that does not necessarily cause inflation. Money creation which exceeds the increase in productivity is what causes inflation. If the Fed were perfect in their timing, inflation would be zero and the economy stable. They're not, so inflation and the economy whip-saw.

A better economy means stocks should go up, and new bonds will have lower returns. Existing bonds become more valuable. So the smart trade is to sell your existing bonds and put that money into stocks.

In a good economy with low inflation, gold and silver are not bought as safe havens.

In the last year or so, everything has changed in the global gold and silver markets. Central banks are now buying huge amounts of gold bullion (e.g. China and India). Silver has had an enormous paper derivative market where traders are playing very short term paper trades (e.g. hours and days) without any intention of holding the metal itself, but now the buyers of the derivatives are demanding delivery of the physical metal.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
I’ll bite. Why?

Lower interest rates will raise inflation. Don’t people buy precious metals as a hedge against inflation? With more buying, why would there be a drop in prices and thus a buying opportunity?

Lowering interest rates will not necessarily raise inflation. Inflation can be defined as having excess money needed to facilitate the current level of economic activity. There are relatively fewer transactions occurring for the amount of money available and the extra money will get soaked up by the available transactions. What would normally be transacted for $100 will now be transacted for $109.

Increasing rates will decrease the money supply. The Fed sells securities at the higher interest rate for no risk to the banks, the banks buy the securities reducing their reserves which reduces the amount they can loan out which reduces the money supply. Less money in the economy reduces the excess money and inflation goes down.

On the flip side, lowering interest rates to spur economic growth is less effective. The economic activity level is what drives the demand for money to facilitate the transaction. If there’s not enough economic activity to drive the demand for money, growth isn’t going to happen and neither will inflation increase. This is called “pushing on a string.” The Fed can choke the economy by figuratively pulling on the string via higher interest rates but it can’t push economic growth by lowering interest rates. I think Japan tried unsuccessfully to spur their economy with negative rates.

As i understand it, gold is a hedge against inflation but it doesn’t compare well with a rising market. If people see the market will continue to rise and inflation low, then they would buy the market and demand less gold.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Rey HRH,

quote:

Originally posted by Fly-Sig:

A better economy means stocks should go up, and new bonds will have lower returns. Existing bonds become more valuable. So the smart trade is to sell your existing bonds and put that money into stocks.

I agree with everything else you said except for this part. Generally, the relationship between stocks and bonds is inverse. When stocks go up, bonds go down. This is because the market expects a better return with stocks so they sell their bonds; doing this lowers bond prices and raises stock prices. Lowering bond prices mean their yields increase (lower investment cost for the same dividend amount). This makes the stock and bond markets reach a new equilibrium - stock expectations for higher returns pull money from bonds lowering bond values and increasing bond yields until the investors say the higher yield I’m getting with my bonds is not worth giving up for the additional risk of moving into stocks for its higher potential reward.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Rey HRH,