I stopped going to our local recreational center’s indoor gun range because the people running it don’t know what they are doing. It’s an older range and by design it is limited to 44 mag. That’s fine but I got tired of employees kicking me off the range because my PCC chambered in .40 S&W “Exceeds the range’s specifications.” The first time, this happened, I spent a significant amount of time gathering data from a variety of ammo and PCC manufacturers regarding the ballistics of a PCC chambered in .40 S&W vs. a 44 mag. I then compiled the data into a letter with a summary of the data and included the original information and sent it to the director of the rec center asking him/her to talk with the range master.

Unfortunately, I had to repeat the process a couple of more times before I finally gave up and stopped going. It seems like either the employees can’t read or they replace them so often that they don’t know about the policies regarding PCC.

What bothered me so much was not the lack of competency but the rude arrogant attitudes. Rather than approaching me and saying “Sir, the range is limited to 44 mag. I’m not sure if your .40 S&W PCC is compliant or not. Would you mind not shooting it today and let’s look into the ballistics. Here is my contact information, could we talk.” Instead of that, you get treated like a criminal trying to burn the place down.

Dorks and Fiefdoms ruin most things, usually under the thinly veiled guise of Safety and general Rules.

quote:

Originally posted by BB61:
I stopped going to our local recreational center’s indoor gun range because the people running it don’t know what they are doing. It’s an older range and by design it is limited to 44 mag. That’s fine but I got tired of employees kicking me off the range because my PCC chambered in .40 S&W “Exceeds the range’s specifications.” The first time, this happened, I spent a significant amount of time gathering data from a variety of ammo and PCC manufacturers regarding the ballistics of a PCC chambered in .40 S&W vs. a 44 mag. I then compiled the data into a letter with a summary of the data and included the original information and sent it to the director of the rec center asking him/her to talk with the range master.

Unfortunately, I had to repeat the process a couple of more times before I finally gave up and stopped going. It seems like either the employees can’t read or they replace them so often that they don’t know about the policies regarding PCC.

What bothered me so much was not the lack of competency but the rude arrogant attitudes. Rather than approaching me and saying “Sir, the range is limited to 44 mag. I’m not sure if your .40 S&W PCC is compliant or not. Would you mind not shooting it today and let’s look into the ballistics. Here is my contact information, could we talk.” Instead of that, you get treated like a criminal trying to burn the place down.

I'm not familiar with "PCC" but is it even possible for a .40S&W to approach the power of a typical .44Mag?

flashguy

PCC=Pistol Caliber Carbine

quote:

Originally posted by H&K-Guy:
Rules would be quoted in support of others, not in the attack of others.


H&K-Guy

I think this is the heart of the matter.

quote:

Originally posted by flashguy:

quote:

Originally posted by BB61:

I'm not familiar with "PCC" but is it even possible for a .40S&W to approach the power of a typical .44Mag?

flashguy

^^^

No. Not event close to the ballistics of a 44Mag But the 16” barrel was throwing them off. They seemed to think the extra 12” would turn my PCC into some sort of wonder blaster.

quote:

Originally posted by BB61:
No. Not event close to the ballistics of a 44Mag But the 16” barrel was throwing them off. They seemed to think the extra 12” would turn my PCC into some sort of wonder blaster.

LOL. My son, friend and his family went to an outdoor range on Saturday. None of us had ever been there. I could tell within 3 minutes I wouldn't like the place and by the time we all left, we were all pissed off (and will never go back.)

I had brought my UMP and didn't even take it out of the bag because I figured the range nazi who was watching us wouldn't understand the ballistics of a 45 ACP and how it would be fine on their pistol range.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
Gun clubs can become their own little kingdoms. Boards tend to become the party of “no” unless it’s their idea. I really hate gun clubs for that reason. It becomes “who you know” and “who you are”. Much like school boards, they become less about the members and or safety and more about feeding the machine.

Amen, and it applies to any small group run by a cabal like that.

And the members are a pain in the ass, too, because they get all proprietary about
"my" range, and "I pay my dues."

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
Gun clubs can become their own little kingdoms. Boards tend to become the party of “no” unless it’s their idea. I really hate gun clubs for that reason. It becomes “who you know” and “who you are”. Much like school boards, they become less about the members and or safety and more about feeding the machine.

Amen, and it applies to any small group run by a cabal like that.

And the members are a pain in the ass, too, because they get all proprietary about
"my" range, and "I pay my dues."

The best outdoor ranges are the ones that are owned by one person and run by that same person. They could also be the worst, but in my experience, they seldom are.

I was once Vice President and Public Relations Officer for a Ham Radio club for over 20 years. It worked well because Mrs. Flash was the president and she owned the 2 meter repeater and the 450 repeater the club used.

The absolute best form of government is a benevolent dictatorship assuming you've got the right tpe of dictator.

So all it takes to get a member in trouble and punished is the word of another?

Unless the guy had a video, he would have needed to promptly fuck off. I would have politely told him as such since he wasn't a designated range officer. Hell, I wouldn't even be OK with an RSO "hollering" at me about anything.

I go to a range once in a while, safety officer, chamber flags, all the rest. I try to keep with the flow, not to bad to mind the rules.

My favorite places to shoot is our camp property & a sand pit a relative owns. The sand is great for brass collection.

Another place not bad is a range up north in a rural area, usually zero or one other shooter present.

Of the ranges that I have been to recently, one was absolutely horrible and two were great.

The really bad one is an indoor range at a gun store that is part of a small chain of stores owned by the same company here in Florida. The last couple times I was there (probably won't go back there to shoot), there was no RSO presence in the shooting area. Anybody could walk in off the street, plunk down some ID (driver license) and some cash, and head for the firing line. No supervision. I left because of unsafe conditions.

The other indoor range was really great. There's a Police Museum just off the causeway leading to Cape Canaveral. The guys who were staffing it when I was there were all retired cops. They were exceedingly polite and helpful. When I checked in, the guy asked my permission to examine my pistol, he checked it thoroughly with a light, and was all set to lube it for me if necessary (it wasn't, Bruce G had told us to "get some damn grease").

When shooting, there was a guy in the booth observing through a window, and another RSO roaming the firing line, two sets of eyes on the shooters. Not obnoxious, not nazi-like, but ready to step in politely and offer help, even some good tips. Best indoor range I've been to.

Outdoor range, the gun club that I belong to. RSO roaming around on a golf cart. There are a few RSOs, the range is open every day (closed Christmas). They are well trained by the senior RSO, they are not intrusive, but they will step in and politely discuss any safety concerns.

I really like my private range. I'd pay a lot more than I do to keep my membership there. I just wish we'd restrict the number of members...

I nearly never shoot with anyone else. SOME club members have started to self-impose the chamber flag nonsense, and keep attempting to get it put into the rules. One of our only really odd rules, is that you cannot bring or remove cased guns on a cold range. You have to bring cases to the firing line in a hot range, uncase them and set them up, then wait for a cold range to setup targets (obviously that part is just fine). But when leaving...same thing. Hot range to handle and case your weapons, and walk them back to your vehicle.

It's probably not a big deal, and probably makes sense for a busy range I suppose, but it makes for an awkward moment with people potentially waiting for a spot to shoot.

I just leave if anyone else is there. If I can't find a private bay to shoot at, I wait for another day.

Usually I have the place to myself all winter if I go in the middle of the week. Also...we have a 1,000+ yard range with steel targets to plink at. I'd pay $1,000 a year if we'd limit membership. I might even pay more, we have heated shoot houses to shoot from.

I got written up once because I just signed in with my last name. It is not a common name and I am the only one in the club with that name. The 2nd time was for bringing along the owner of the LGS. He had been a member for many years and made donations to the club, but let his membership lapse. He came with me to get re-upped.

Apparently there is a bylaw that says previous members can not come as guests.

Update on things. Had my meeting with "the Bobs".

Verdict, 6 month probation no guests and a "recommendation" that I attend the next new members meeting/orientation.

Apparently a couple more things have changed over the years that I was not aware of. The target location on the 25/50 being one of them, even tho it's not written it is apparently a rule now and is discussed at the new member orientation. Along with the no moving of benches and apparently no sitting on them eather. It was mentioned that one of my guests was seen sitting on a unused bench for a couple minutes at some point, was not seen by me, and two guests not three regardless of the "reason" or if only two are actually shooting.

Oh well, I can still carry on as usual otherwise, which is just fine. I don't know when I will be getting to go and shoot more anyway and don't really have anyone else for "guests" anyway

Also the person that was doing the hollering and reported me was another member. Their isn't a RSO at all. It's just a "police yerself" type place.

I had actually thought about doing the new member orientation again on my own anyway due to the apparently numerous changes and I had actually mentioned that at the meeting. Don't know if it made a difference or not but whatever

We had some retired guys with nothing Better to do constantly harass every person there with some sort of violation. I pretty much told them to go bother someone else.

quote:

Originally posted by AKSuperDually:

One of our only really odd rules, is that you cannot bring or remove cased guns on a cold range. You have to bring cases to the firing line in a hot range, uncase them and set them up, then wait for a cold range to setup targets (obviously that part is just fine). But when leaving...same thing. Hot range to handle and case your weapons, and walk them back to your vehicle.

It's probably not a big deal, and probably makes sense for a busy range I suppose, but it makes for an awkward moment with people potentially waiting for a spot to shoot.

Our club has the same rule. No touching a firearm for any reason, including casing / uncasing, when the range is cold. Reason: Cold range, people can be downrange setting up targets, etc., so no touching a firearm if people can be downrange.

It's perfectly OK to do things like load magazines as long as you do not touch the gun.

quote:

Update on things. Had my meeting with "the Bobs".

Excellent bobiverse reference.