safe & sound
| Best I have found so far is a Writ of Habeas Corpus. Seems to be so common in California that they have a form on a website you can fill out and print. Dealing with several scouts in the area that were quarantined, but did not meet the standards used as a justification to quarantine people. When I spoke the the person in charge of quarantining people, it sounded like she just pencil whipped it without actually doing much investigation into the situation. I'm done with this nonsense, and would not only be interested in getting her decision overturned, but also going after them for violating the civil rights of these children. |
| | | Posts: 15863 | Location: St. Charles, MO, USA | Registered: September 22, 2003 | 
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safe & sound
| quote: If you're going up against 'city hall' I'd suggest getting a local attorney involved.
It's the county, and there are no local attorneys that specialize in civil rights, which is what I suspect this will be. quote: implied threat of further action
I'm not implying at this point. If I have a legitimate legal complaint, action will be taken. Here's the short version of events leading up to the question: Son is in Scouts, Scouts went on a camping trip in a neighboring county on Saturday. 4th graders. On Monday one of the boys tested positive. Many (not all) of those on the camping trip were called to the nurse, where she called all of the parents to pick them up. She handed all of the parents a "quarantine order" from the county which does not contain the names of those quarantined, nor the date it was issued. A very rude nurse, who makes these decisions for the county, did not contact any of the Scout leaders. None of the adults on the trip were contacted. None of the adults on the trip were quarantined. The "CDC Guidelines" as she explained required anybody that was within 6 feet for a cumulative time of 15 minutes be quarantined. Several of those quarantined do not fit that definition. She seemed very pissed that masks were not being worn while hiking in the woods, and in most photos, more than 6 feet apart. We have several photos of the event which do not support her assertions. |
| | | Posts: 15863 | Location: St. Charles, MO, USA | Registered: September 22, 2003 |
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Big Stack
| It would probably take longer for the legal challenge to get to the point where a judge would issue an injunction than to do just do the quarantine. |
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Very little
| quote: Originally posted by BBMW:
It would probably take longer for the legal challenge to get to the point where a judge would issue an injunction than to do just do the quarantine.
This, other than making your point, which without legal action, won't change diddly squat.... |
| | | Posts: 24341 | Location: Gunshine State | Registered: November 07, 2008 |
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| Shit, if you want to go against quarantine orders/guidelines, just get a job in healthcare. Even if you're exposed to someone for 45 minutes straight who has tested positive for COVID-19 and wasn't wearing a mask, your employer won't let you quarantine and won't let you get tested due to "staffing shortages." ...ask me how I know... |
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Raised Hands Surround Us
Three Nails To Protect Us
| So a nurse at some camp in a county to which you don’t live told you to quarantine am I reading that correctly?? I’d go about my merry way and not give it another thought.
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The world's not perfect, but it's not that bad.
If we got each other, and that's all we have.
I will be your brother, and I'll hold your hand.
You should know I'll be there for you!
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safe & sound
| quote: So a nurse at some camp in a county to which you don’t live told you to quarantine am I reading that correctly??
That nurse has removed at least 5 Scouts from school for two weeks who shouldn't have been. 18 Students in total. I have spoken with a few attorneys. Not much of this has been litigated here in Missouri, and some of what has been has not been decided in the favor of those bringing the actions. As it stands these health departments (and their employees) can do whatever they wish with little recourse. Today I sent a letter off to the Public Health Administrator (nurse's boss), the County Commissioners (her boss's bosses), and my Rep & Senator: quote: Ms. Walters,
My name is Frank Zykan. I own a few small businesses in the area, reside in Lincoln County, and have children which attend the Wright City School District. I write to you as a result of a "quarantine order" provided to us after our son's school called and asked that he be picked up, our experience contacting your office, and other serious concerns we have as a result. I will attempt to be as brief and succinct as possible.
On Saturday, October 24, my son (Frankie Zykan) and approximately 16 other Boy Scouts attended a day long and overnight excursion at Klondike Park in St. Charles County. This event included a three mile hike, campground set up, fire starting lesson, dinner preparation, skit presentation, and then an overnight stay. Social distancing was requested and some of these activities were conducted in smaller groups in different areas of the park as opposed to all being involved at once.
On Monday, October 26th, one of the Scouts in attendance felt ill at school, was dismissed for a doctor appointment, and allegedly tested positive for Covid. As a result, 18 students were quarantined as reported by the Superintendent. Several of those quarantined were Boy Scouts on this excursion.
The "quarantine order" was issued by the school and not your department, although it does contain your letterhead. The school claimed they printed it as a result of a "phone call". It does not contain my son's name, it is not dated, nor is it signed by any person of authority.
Upon receiving this document, I telephoned the number shown. I believe it was a secretary that I spoke with who took my number, explaining that "nurse Lisa" would return my call. I do not see "Lisa" listed on your official webpage as a staff member. Lisa was dismissive and rude. She explained that she was in charge of "following CDC guidelines" as it related to "contact tracing", and "conducting investigations" to determine the issuance of quarantine orders.
My concerns:
No real investigation was conducted. No scout leaders were contacted. No parents of quarantined children were contacted or asked any questions prior to the determination that each quarantine was warranted.
CDC guidelines were not followed. Several of those quarantined would not have experienced 15 minutes of cumulative exposure within 6 feet of the positive Scout. We have personal testimony along with photographic evidence to support this.
There appears to be no mechanism in place to appeal these decisions or to provide any additional pertinent information which may impact a decision.
Some Scouts present were ordered to quarantine, while other Scouts equally as present were not.
None of the adults, equally as present, were ordered to quarantine.
Your office expressed how overwhelmed they were when I called. The Superintendent stated he was asked by your department to print and issue these "orders" as your office was unable to keep up. It appears on the surface that this has caused chaos at your department, and that chaos has resulted in incomplete and inaccurate work.
A legal quarantine order restricts the freedoms of those ordered, impacting their civil rights. If somebody in your office is rushing, taking short cuts, or otherwise "pencil whipping" paperwork, you are violating the rights of your citizens.
I would appreciate a response at your earliest convenience, and am happy to provide you with any additional information you may need.
Respectfully,
Frank Zykan
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| | | Posts: 15863 | Location: St. Charles, MO, USA | Registered: September 22, 2003 |
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safe & sound
| quote: You posted that it was 15 cumulative minutes. Is that a typo? From what we’ve been told, and practicing, it’s consecutive minutes.
Those were the words from nurse Lisa. She stated that with the children together for a total of 8 hours "surely they all had a cumulative exposure of 15 minutes". The CDC print out I have in front of me simply says "Contact tracing will be conducted for close contacts (any individual within 6 feed of an infected person for a total of 15 minutes or more)" Edited to add: Just found Missouri Department Of Health & Senior Services changed their guidance on September 25th to state "identify any individual with a cumulative exposure of 15 minutes as a close contact". Formerly "consecutive". quote: It’s almost as if they didn’t want to take the time to watch the tape and properly contact trace, rather, just throw a blanket quarantine order to make it easier on them (the Health Dept)
Imagine the police arresting every shopper in a store because they knew somebody had shoplifted. This is exactly my issue. If you want to use police powers (which is exactly what this is), you better make sure you're applying them correctly and justly. quote: As an attorney you need to find an attorney who specializes in Federal Civil Rights issues for the district of the United States Court. What you’re describing falls into the purview of 42 USC 1983, Civil Rights violations. Not litigated in a county court. Seek a TRO, against the County in US District Court.
That's what I was told by the attorney who says they're not biting. His wife works for a larger firm and is specializing in Covid suits in defense of several local private schools and other large companies. Said at least at this point in time, they are only siding with the government. |
| | | Posts: 15863 | Location: St. Charles, MO, USA | Registered: September 22, 2003 |
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| On the "instructions" portion of the letter it states that parents can work and siblings can go to school. That makes no sense at all. If COVID is as contagious as everyone is raving about, then your son cant infect other household members? And he has to quarantine and no one else? Thats nuts!
End of Earth: 2 Miles
Upper Peninsula: 4 Miles
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| Interesting that they backed down when confronted about it. |
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safe & sound
| quote: Interesting that they backed down when confronted about it.
I just got off the phone with the Superintendent and made sure to record the conversation. He repeated how the health department contacts the school, the school issues the order on their behalf, etc. Said they were even doing it today. I told him about the e-mail that I have from the health department that essentially tossed him under the bus. Even after responding to me, the health department was not courteous enough to call the schools to give them a heads up, AND are still carrying on today contrary to their own admission. We are dropping off a copy to him in about 15 minutes, and he's going to forward it to their legal department. By time we get this settled it will no longer effect us, but I hope it prevents some of this nonsense from continuing with others. |
| | | Posts: 15863 | Location: St. Charles, MO, USA | Registered: September 22, 2003 |
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Big Stack
| A lot of what they (they being all the government agencies in all the various states and municipalities) is of very questionable enforceabllity, and even if it is legally enforceable, they don't want to be bothered. quote: Originally posted by Expert308:
Interesting that they backed down when confronted about it.
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