Thank you to all that have posted in this thread, I've moved my Boston Terriers to Merrick. After years on blue buffalo, one of them has started to have an allergic reaction to her food. I think they changed something in it.

Sigforum is, as usual, a great resource for nearly everything.

Diamond senior mix for our 9 year old pit bull. Forgot what I got for our 2 year old maltese/yorkie mix. She's only 10 pounds, doesn't eat that much and never has so a 30 pound bag lasts her quite a while.

No issues for either dog.

Couple years ago we tried BB for the pit bull and she got the runs. Did the slow mix to wean her into it. Brought it back.

quote:

Originally posted by marksman41:

quote:

Originally posted by fgwilliams1:
We used BB for our JRTs up until a year or so ago. Both dogs got horribly ill. The SIL on staff at the local College of Veterinary medicine read us the riot act about using that brand. It has a terrible reputation in the veterinary community. We switched and haven't gone back.

Hmm... pretty much every veterinarian's office I've been to has a display for Science Diet products which, with even a moderate amount of research, are regarded to be crap by knowledgeable pet owners.

Blue Buffalo used to have a good reputation but it's been more than a few years since I've looked at the market. Pet owners really have to keep up because things seem to change frequently in the pet food world (companies bought/sold; recalls; decreasing quality; etc.)

Yep, let’s ignore the opinion of people who have gone to a ton of schooling and dedicated their careers to caring for pets and go with the opinion of people with no training but do have internet access.

Vets are trained to treat and manage cases based on sound science and research.
I appreciate that pet owners are interested in nutrition but as has been said, do not confuse your google search with actual research. Bring up the discussion and if you do not trust your by vets opinion, find a new vet.
Blue was sued successfully for misleading their customers. They do no research and are simply a marketing company. That’s why your vet hates them.

quote:

Originally posted by dgrdvm:

quote:

Originally posted by marksman41:

quote:

Originally posted by fgwilliams1:
We used BB for our JRTs up until a year or so ago. Both dogs got horribly ill. The SIL on staff at the local College of Veterinary medicine read us the riot act about using that brand. It has a terrible reputation in the veterinary community. We switched and haven't gone back.

Hmm... pretty much every veterinarian's office I've been to has a display for Science Diet products which, with even a moderate amount of research, are regarded to be crap by knowledgeable pet owners.

Blue Buffalo used to have a good reputation but it's been more than a few years since I've looked at the market. Pet owners really have to keep up because things seem to change frequently in the pet food world (companies bought/sold; recalls; decreasing quality; etc.)

Yep, let’s ignore the opinion of people who have gone to a ton of schooling and dedicated their careers to caring for pets and go with the opinion of people with no training but do have internet access.

Vets are trained to treat and manage cases based on sound science and research.
I appreciate that pet owners are interested in nutrition but as has been said, do not confuse your google search with actual research. Bring up the discussion and if you do not trust your by vets opinion, find a new vet.
Blue was sued successfully for misleading their customers. They do no research and are simply a marketing company. That’s why your vet hates them.

These are the same people that go to their Cardiologist, ignore ALL of his recommendations on diet, exercise, and what they should be taking. And then listen to the quack expert at the holistic health food store on what they should be eating and doing.

You can find research to claim anything on the internet, whether it's correct or not is a totally different story. I simply follow my Vet's recommendation and that's what I'm paying him for. I don't even buy my food there, I buy it at Pet Stupidmarket.

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:

quote:

Originally posted by dgrdvm:

quote:

Originally posted by marksman41:

quote:

Originally posted by fgwilliams1:
We used BB for our JRTs up until a year or so ago. Both dogs got horribly ill. The SIL on staff at the local College of Veterinary medicine read us the riot act about using that brand. It has a terrible reputation in the veterinary community. We switched and haven't gone back.

Hmm... pretty much every veterinarian's office I've been to has a display for Science Diet products which, with even a moderate amount of research, are regarded to be crap by knowledgeable pet owners.

Blue Buffalo used to have a good reputation but it's been more than a few years since I've looked at the market. Pet owners really have to keep up because things seem to change frequently in the pet food world (companies bought/sold; recalls; decreasing quality; etc.)

Yep, let’s ignore the opinion of people who have gone to a ton of schooling and dedicated their careers to caring for pets and go with the opinion of people with no training but do have internet access.

Vets are trained to treat and manage cases based on sound science and research.
I appreciate that pet owners are interested in nutrition but as has been said, do not confuse your google search with actual research. Bring up the discussion and if you do not trust your by vets opinion, find a new vet.
Blue was sued successfully for misleading their customers. They do no research and are simply a marketing company. That’s why your vet hates them.

These are the same people that go to their Cardiologist, ignore ALL of his recommendations on diet, exercise, and what they should be taking. And then listen to the quack expert at the holistic health food store on what they should be eating and doing.

You can find research to claim anything on the internet, whether it's correct or not is a totally different story. I simply follow my Vet's recommendation and that's what I'm paying him for. I don't even buy my food there, I buy it at Pet Stupidmarket.

Jimmy and dgr - either you two haven't read the thread through, which makes your posts ignorant, or you both are being intentionally ignorant and disregarding much of the discussion - which is ignorant. Whichever the case, there's no need to go over what has been clearly stated, both pro and con, in previous posts. It's all there. Read and free yourself from ignorance.

quote:

Originally posted by marksman41:

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:

quote:

Originally posted by dgrdvm:

quote:

Originally posted by marksman41:

quote:

Originally posted by fgwilliams1:
We used BB for our JRTs up until a year or so ago. Both dogs got horribly ill. The SIL on staff at the local College of Veterinary medicine read us the riot act about using that brand. It has a terrible reputation in the veterinary community. We switched and haven't gone back.

Hmm... pretty much every veterinarian's office I've been to has a display for Science Diet products which, with even a moderate amount of research, are regarded to be crap by knowledgeable pet owners.

Blue Buffalo used to have a good reputation but it's been more than a few years since I've looked at the market. Pet owners really have to keep up because things seem to change frequently in the pet food world (companies bought/sold; recalls; decreasing quality; etc.)

Yep, let’s ignore the opinion of people who have gone to a ton of schooling and dedicated their careers to caring for pets and go with the opinion of people with no training but do have internet access.

Vets are trained to treat and manage cases based on sound science and research.
I appreciate that pet owners are interested in nutrition but as has been said, do not confuse your google search with actual research. Bring up the discussion and if you do not trust your by vets opinion, find a new vet.
Blue was sued successfully for misleading their customers. They do no research and are simply a marketing company. That’s why your vet hates them.

These are the same people that go to their Cardiologist, ignore ALL of his recommendations on diet, exercise, and what they should be taking. And then listen to the quack expert at the holistic health food store on what they should be eating and doing.

You can find research to claim anything on the internet, whether it's correct or not is a totally different story. I simply follow my Vet's recommendation and that's what I'm paying him for. I don't even buy my food there, I buy it at Pet Stupidmarket.

Jimmy and dgr - either you two haven't read the thread through, which makes your posts ignorant, or you both are being intentionally ignorant and disregarding much of the discussion - which is ignorant. Whichever the case, there's no need to go over what has been clearly stated, both pro and con, in previous posts. It's all there. Read and free yourself from ignorance.

I have read all of the posts in entirety. Who is ignorant? One who follows what they read from unknown sources on the internet or the local pet store personel with what training. Or postings from the several licensed Veterinarians, who have a degree from Veterinarian schools, of which have made postings right here in this thread?

Everyone is entitled to their own theories, to feed their own dog whatever they would like to feed him, and come up with their own hypothesis. I choose to feed him what my dogs Vet recommends I feed him and is backed up by a long time Vet tech who is a personal friend of mine and as I said earlier, they recently did his bloodwork and it's all perfect (which is generally a sign a dog is healthy?).

One thing I can guarantee, is that over 95% of the non veterinarians in this post. None of them have the tools, experience, or education to differentiate which food is better than the other with a valid scientific reason other than reading things that other people have published. I certainly don't.

Can anyone answer why a dog should eat grain free? We as humans eat several vegetables that have virtually no nutrition significance like lettuce and corn, but they do help our digestive track and to keep things moving. Like I said earlier, I don't have the schooling or training to answer that. MOST people do not, but almost every single Veterinarian does as that is what they learn in school when they become a Veterinarian.

quote:

Originally posted by marksman41:

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:

quote:

Originally posted by dgrdvm:

quote:

Originally posted by marksman41:

quote:

Originally posted by fgwilliams1:
We used BB for our JRTs up until a year or so ago. Both dogs got horribly ill. The SIL on staff at the local College of Veterinary medicine read us the riot act about using that brand. It has a terrible reputation in the veterinary community. We switched and haven't gone back.

Hmm... pretty much every veterinarian's office I've been to has a display for Science Diet products which, with even a moderate amount of research, are regarded to be crap by knowledgeable pet owners.

Blue Buffalo used to have a good reputation but it's been more than a few years since I've looked at the market. Pet owners really have to keep up because things seem to change frequently in the pet food world (companies bought/sold; recalls; decreasing quality; etc.)

Yep, let’s ignore the opinion of people who have gone to a ton of schooling and dedicated their careers to caring for pets and go with the opinion of people with no training but do have internet access.

Vets are trained to treat and manage cases based on sound science and research.
I appreciate that pet owners are interested in nutrition but as has been said, do not confuse your google search with actual research. Bring up the discussion and if you do not trust your by vets opinion, find a new vet.
Blue was sued successfully for misleading their customers. They do no research and are simply a marketing company. That’s why your vet hates them.

These are the same people that go to their Cardiologist, ignore ALL of his recommendations on diet, exercise, and what they should be taking. And then listen to the quack expert at the holistic health food store on what they should be eating and doing.

You can find research to claim anything on the internet, whether it's correct or not is a totally different story. I simply follow my Vet's recommendation and that's what I'm paying him for. I don't even buy my food there, I buy it at Pet Stupidmarket.

Jimmy and dgr - either you two haven't read the thread through, which makes your posts ignorant, or you both are being intentionally ignorant and disregarding much of the discussion - which is ignorant. Whichever the case, there's no need to go over what has been clearly stated, both pro and con, in previous posts. It's all there. Read and free yourself from ignorance.

Mark, I kinda did. And while I thank you for your opinion on my though process I stand by my thoughts. Should be interested please email me and we can converse on this if you like. Or not.

Addendum. After consideration , I am pretty sure there will nothing of value gained in such a conversation. You are correct. I withdraw from this discussion.

quote:

Originally posted by dgrdvm:

quote:

Originally posted by marksman41:

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:

quote:

Originally posted by dgrdvm:

quote:

Originally posted by marksman41:

quote:

Originally posted by fgwilliams1:
We used BB for our JRTs up until a year or so ago. Both dogs got horribly ill. The SIL on staff at the local College of Veterinary medicine read us the riot act about using that brand. It has a terrible reputation in the veterinary community. We switched and haven't gone back.

Hmm... pretty much every veterinarian's office I've been to has a display for Science Diet products which, with even a moderate amount of research, are regarded to be crap by knowledgeable pet owners.

Blue Buffalo used to have a good reputation but it's been more than a few years since I've looked at the market. Pet owners really have to keep up because things seem to change frequently in the pet food world (companies bought/sold; recalls; decreasing quality; etc.)

Yep, let’s ignore the opinion of people who have gone to a ton of schooling and dedicated their careers to caring for pets and go with the opinion of people with no training but do have internet access.

Vets are trained to treat and manage cases based on sound science and research.
I appreciate that pet owners are interested in nutrition but as has been said, do not confuse your google search with actual research. Bring up the discussion and if you do not trust your by vets opinion, find a new vet.
Blue was sued successfully for misleading their customers. They do no research and are simply a marketing company. That’s why your vet hates them.

These are the same people that go to their Cardiologist, ignore ALL of his recommendations on diet, exercise, and what they should be taking. And then listen to the quack expert at the holistic health food store on what they should be eating and doing.

You can find research to claim anything on the internet, whether it's correct or not is a totally different story. I simply follow my Vet's recommendation and that's what I'm paying him for. I don't even buy my food there, I buy it at Pet Stupidmarket.

Jimmy and dgr - either you two haven't read the thread through, which makes your posts ignorant, or you both are being intentionally ignorant and disregarding much of the discussion - which is ignorant. Whichever the case, there's no need to go over what has been clearly stated, both pro and con, in previous posts. It's all there. Read and free yourself from ignorance.

Mark, I kinda did. And while I thank you for your opinion on my though process I stand by my thoughts. Should be interested please email me and we can converse on this if you like. Or not.

Addendum. After consideration , I am pretty sure there will nothing of value gained in such a conversation. You are correct. I withdraw from this discussion.

You kinda read through the thread and pretty much missed the greater part of the conversation, reasons, real world examples and experience, etc. Withdrawing from the discussion is a good call.

And the same to Jimmy - it's pointless to continue a discussion with someone who refuses to acknowledge the entirety of the conversation. Your posts in this thread show that you have a position based only on what your vet. tech tells with no research of your own, and no acknowledgement of the information already posted here. Why would anyone bother to continue an argument with you on a subject on which you have little or no knowledge and do not wish to acquire any? You're just not worth the time, Jimmy.

quote:

Originally posted by marksman41:

quote:

Originally posted by dgrdvm:

quote:

Originally posted by marksman41:

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:

quote:

Originally posted by dgrdvm:

quote:

Originally posted by marksman41:

quote:

Originally posted by fgwilliams1:
We used BB for our JRTs up until a year or so ago. Both dogs got horribly ill. The SIL on staff at the local College of Veterinary medicine read us the riot act about using that brand. It has a terrible reputation in the veterinary community. We switched and haven't gone back.

Hmm... pretty much every veterinarian's office I've been to has a display for Science Diet products which, with even a moderate amount of research, are regarded to be crap by knowledgeable pet owners.

Blue Buffalo used to have a good reputation but it's been more than a few years since I've looked at the market. Pet owners really have to keep up because things seem to change frequently in the pet food world (companies bought/sold; recalls; decreasing quality; etc.)

Yep, let’s ignore the opinion of people who have gone to a ton of schooling and dedicated their careers to caring for pets and go with the opinion of people with no training but do have internet access.

Vets are trained to treat and manage cases based on sound science and research.
I appreciate that pet owners are interested in nutrition but as has been said, do not confuse your google search with actual research. Bring up the discussion and if you do not trust your by vets opinion, find a new vet.
Blue was sued successfully for misleading their customers. They do no research and are simply a marketing company. That’s why your vet hates them.

These are the same people that go to their Cardiologist, ignore ALL of his recommendations on diet, exercise, and what they should be taking. And then listen to the quack expert at the holistic health food store on what they should be eating and doing.

You can find research to claim anything on the internet, whether it's correct or not is a totally different story. I simply follow my Vet's recommendation and that's what I'm paying him for. I don't even buy my food there, I buy it at Pet Stupidmarket.

Jimmy and dgr - either you two haven't read the thread through, which makes your posts ignorant, or you both are being intentionally ignorant and disregarding much of the discussion - which is ignorant. Whichever the case, there's no need to go over what has been clearly stated, both pro and con, in previous posts. It's all there. Read and free yourself from ignorance.

Mark, I kinda did. And while I thank you for your opinion on my though process I stand by my thoughts. Should be interested please email me and we can converse on this if you like. Or not.

Addendum. After consideration , I am pretty sure there will nothing of value gained in such a conversation. You are correct. I withdraw from this discussion.

You kinda read through the thread and pretty much missed the greater part of the conversation, reasons, real world examples and experience, etc. Withdrawing from the discussion is a good call.

And the same to Jimmy - it's pointless to continue a discussion with someone who refuses to acknowledge the entirety of the conversation. Your posts in this thread show that you have a position based only on what your vet. tech tells with no research of your own, and no acknowledgement of the information already posted here. Why would anyone bother to continue an argument with you on a subject on which you have little or no knowledge and do not wish to acquire any? You're just not worth the time, Jimmy.

I have read the post and do have an open mind. At the same token you refuse to acknowledge the entirety of the conversation and of which several pet medical professionals have posted.

Quite honestly, when I go to the doctor. I follow what they tell me because they are the professional, they have the tools, training, schooling and knowledge. I don't out think them with stuff I've read on the internet. I do research what they prescribe me. But I don't second guess them. Same thing goes for a factory trained mechanic, or any other professional that you are paying for their knowledge and expertise.

Quite frankly, as I've said earlier, I don't care what you feed your dog. You could feed him pizza for all I care.....but don't call me ignorant because you're so set in your ways that only your view is the right one. A forum is a collection of viewpoints, otherwise people would go to "ask the expert" where one person posts replies to people's questions.

I know several Vet's and Vet techs that work at different places. Their job is their passion, they all love dogs and have several including other pets, they all feed them Science Diet and seem to dismiss the boutique brands for one reason or another. They are up on the latest dog nutrition, these are the people that are looking at dog's bloodwork charts on a daily basis, seeing dozens of dogs a day, their health and know what the owners feed them.

Quite honestly, if you were THAT concerned with what your dog eats, you would cook it's food from food YOU would normally eat. People that are that concerned with their dogs food make it themselves from fresh boneless/skinless chicken, carrots, whole grain rice and other fresh ingredients that they would eat that they boil up, there are tons of those recipes online. Not fish MEAL- which consists of ground up fish bones, head, skin, and other crap that would normally go in the garbage can, or other various protein meals in the all of the dog foods (boutique included) that consist of the same unsalable ingredients. Think about it, there is VERY little chicken parts that does not go to the grocery store to be sold, what is left that goes to the dog food company to be ground up as MEAL, garbage.

Lol. Mark I had the same thoughts. No point having a discussion with some one not equipped to speak rationally. Just going to lead to frustration. It’s all been said.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: dgrdvm,

There is so much fail in your last post Jimmy that you are belittling yourself.

Perhaps you should actually do some research instead of just making shit up. I don’t think you’ve read the thread. If you did you must have read every other sentence and decided to post about the skipped sentences just for something to occupy your time.

Just wow.

I’m out. There is no way to respond to what you’ve written.

quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Yarchin:
There is so much fail in your last post Jimmy that you are belittling yourself.

Perhaps you should actually do some research instead of just making shit up. I don’t think you’ve read the thread. If you did you must have read every other sentence and decided to post about the skipped sentences just for something to occupy your time.

Just wow.

I’m out. There is no way to respond to what you’ve written.

It's like trying to discuss doing something totally different with your diet with your Cardiologist, after you've had a quadruple bypass surgery, when he does heart surgery 4 days a week and only deals with heart patients every single day of the week. He tells you to do this diet, and then the patient is trying to argue that the low carb (for example) diet is better because of research you've done on the internet. However, your cardiologist has seen your heart, your body, and your bloodwork. If all of the veterinarians on the board are saying pretty much the same thing. Then doing your internet research, you're saying that such and such is better, and then trying to say they don't know what the hell they're talking about and didn't learn dogs nutrition in all of the years that they went to veterinarian school. Yet, they're the very same people you take your dog to, that interprets your dogs blood work.....

And, sure I've read all of the various nutrition theories about dogs on the internet and here and there. But, I admit I am not knowledgable enough to determine which is better than the others. For example, does or should a domestic dog have a grain free diet, or do they need the grain to help with pooping........So I go with what THE expert tells me to use, MY DOGS veterinarian.

I do know several really involved dog owners that professionally show their dogs, or respected breeders, they feed them a fresh diet that they cook themselves.....I know it consists of b/s chicken breast, carrots, rice and some other ingredients......

Jeff, question on foods for dogs that are getting chubby. We currently feed ours Victor High Performance and follow the feeding guide, but our fur kids are still putting on weight. We've cut back, but the weight isn't coming off. They are young(4 and 2) and active, they play like crazy and we exercise them daily.

Doing research on the different weight control foods, they all seem to be lower on the protein content, usually 20-24%, while the crude fat is only about 5% less of Victors 16%. Merrick has a food that has a high 32% protein and low fat, 8% and is grain free, but people say they are now owned by Purina and the quality is down.

Any insight would be appreciated.

quote:

Originally posted by giz55792:
Jeff, question on foods for dogs that are getting chubby. We currently feed ours Victor High Performance and follow the feeding guide, but our fur kids are still putting on weight. We've cut back, but the weight isn't coming off. They are young(4 and 2) and active, they play like crazy and we exercise them daily.

Doing research on the different weight control foods, they all seem to be lower on the protein content, usually 20-24%, while the crude fat is only about 5% less of Victors 16%. Merrick has a food that has a high 32% protein and low fat, 8% and is grain free, but people say they are now owned by Purina and the quality is down.

Any insight would be appreciated.

I'm not Jeff, but I just went through this with my dog and my vet. He was 85lbs for years and blossomed to 105 lbs in a years time or less. They did tests to check if there was a thyroid issue first which is common to my breed. My vet recommended feeding the dog the same amount as recommended on the bag but only cutting back a little bit (basically 10-20% less volume than recommended on the bag for his weight, basically the one step below it) so the dog isn't hungry all of the time. My vet recommended going to a light food (and was against senior food for him) even though he is 8 years old and a breed with an average lifespan of around 12-14 years (Doberman/Rottweiler) which I have done and exercising him more. They also stated dog treats are very fattening and not to give him more than 1 large dog bone one per day.

I won't get into what food is better than another as I am not a Vet. Quite honestly it would be best to ask your Vet, who is intimately familiar with your dog.

I am not a veterinarian, but my wife is. She gives our dogs Iams. Not necessarily an indictment on Blue Buffalo or any other dog food its just what we use.

quote:

Originally posted by giz55792:
Jeff, question on foods for dogs that are getting chubby. We currently feed ours Victor High Performance and follow the feeding guide, but our fur kids are still putting on weight. We've cut back, but the weight isn't coming off. They are young(4 and 2) and active, they play like crazy and we exercise them daily.


Doing research on the different weight control foods, they all seem to be lower on the protein content, usually 20-24%, while the crude fat is only about 5% less of Victors 16%. Merrick has a food that has a high 32% protein and low fat, 8% and is grain free, but people say they are now owned by Purina and the quality is down.

Any insight would be appreciated.

email sent, as I'm done with this thread.

My God man, can you guys stop replying with walls of text?

Please?

It's really not difficult to prune your replies.

quote:

Originally posted by giz55792:
Jeff, question on foods for dogs that are getting chubby. We currently feed ours Victor High Performance and follow the feeding guide, but our fur kids are still putting on weight. We've cut back, but the weight isn't coming off. They are young(4 and 2) and active, they play like crazy and we exercise them daily.

Doing research on the different weight control foods, they all seem to be lower on the protein content, usually 20-24%, while the crude fat is only about 5% less of Victors 16%. Merrick has a food that has a high 32% protein and low fat, 8% and is grain free, but people say they are now owned by Purina and the quality is down.

Any insight would be appreciated.

Hi Giz,
Obesity is a huge problem for our pets, and I applaud you for recognizing it early and proactively managing it. Comparing labels can be tough, as the info there is vauge and mostly not helpful. There is some good research that higher protein, lower carb diets work for weight loss in cats, but it is not as clear in dogs. Purina follows this philosophy with some of their diets. That said, looking at the guaranteed analysis on the bag is not helpful. The GA is a thermal/chemical breakdown of a food to give a chemical analysis. That’s the “crude” part. This does not reflect actual paletability or diegestibilty or the quality of the ingredients. Also note they are expressed as minimums and maximums, often not the actual amounts in the product. Ask for a nutrient analysis of the food, with exact amount and digestibility numbers from the company. If they won’t give it, ask why.
Currently, we have the best success with diets that are complete and balenced, have a low calorie density ( less calories per cup, or better gram, of food) and are designed for weight loss to avoid a nutrient deficiency when fed at or near the resting energy requirement for your pets ideal weight.
Please feel free to email me should you wish to discuss this further. Be aware however that I have been tagged as ignorant in this thread so maintain a critical mindset !

Left to their own devices 3 of 3 labs I owned would happily graze on road killed raccoon and earcorn they pulled out of a corn crib themselves.

They each considered themselves somewhat experts on what they would eat if they were wild dogs. Possum and corn was considered crow feed.

Corn is nutritionally complete for dogs, confirmed by university research done decades ago. The reason we do not feed it to pet dogs is because it produces watery stools that most people with dogs in their family would consider to be unacceptable.