Earthbound is excellent. Origen and Acana are felt to be the best but they are expensive. Acana is cheaper than Origen. There are plenty of great options out there.

As an FYI most of these company’s offer a frequent buyer
program through independent retailers. Buy 10 get one free. All have free samples and most guarantee satisfaction. If your dog decides he doesn’t like it for any reason you can exchange it
For something else.

The most important advice I can share is to do the research just
As you would for your own food. Read the ingredient label. Avoid corn, wheat, soy and byproducts of any kind. Thes are indigestible cheap fillers they use to increase profits.

quote:

Originally posted by sgalczyn:

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:

quote:

Originally posted by sgalczyn:
They have been on Taste of the Wild since and never hesitate.

My Golden gets the buffalo venison version of this and has been doing great on it.

I alternate so they don get bored:
Bison
Venison-Legume
Prairie fowl or somewhat
They won't finish a bag of the Lamb, Boar or salmon - so i skip those

Taste of The Wild just introduced a new line for independent stores. It
is priced the same as TOW but will have the best
Frequent buyer program in the industry...buy 8 get one free.

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:

quote:

Originally posted by marksman41:

quote:

Originally posted by fgwilliams1:
We used BB for our JRTs up until a year or so ago. Both dogs got horribly ill. The SIL on staff at the local College of Veterinary medicine read us the riot act about using that brand. It has a terrible reputation in the veterinary community. We switched and haven't gone back.

Hmm... pretty much every veterinarian's office I've been to has a display for Science Diet products which, with even a moderate amount of research, are regarded to be crap by knowledgeable pet owners.

Blue Buffalo used to have a good reputation but it's been more than a few years since I've looked at the market. Pet owners really have to keep up because things seem to change frequently in the pet food world (companies bought/sold; recalls; decreasing quality; etc.)

A lot of people say Science diet is crap. However, my dog was on Iams from year 1-2 and had terribly dry skin. I switched him to Science diet because my girlfriends sister is a veterinarian tech at a large Animal Hospital and recommended it and fed her dogs it. If it's crap why would she do that? Anyways, he's 8 now, likes it, never had an issue with him or it and all of his blood numbers look good for a 100lb 8 year old Doberman/Rottweiler.

Because Science Diet has some sort of agreement with veterinary schools and does a lot of promoting their products like pharmaceutical companies do both in school and at vet. offices. You and your dog like Science Diet? That's wonderful!!!

Look at the ingredients of Science Diet compared to a quality food like Orijen and you'll see the difference. But hey, whatever floats your boat.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: marksman41,

quote:

Originally posted by Tejas421:
Science Diet is an excellent dog food.

No, it is not.

quote:

t has a terrible reputation in the veterinary community

When I was looking for a food to swirtch to, my vet was happy with it.

I used Taste of the Wild but they had a recall. But even without that, the dogs gained too much weight on it. I needed a Weight Management food. Both dogs love it and I've experienced zero issues in the two years.

Our breeder uses Fromm but that's tough to get. they sell only through independent operations. Plus the price is significantly highers.

quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Yarchin:

quote:

Originally posted by 46and2:
The "veterinary community" in general has minimal credibility regarding dog food brands, and that's being nice. Lots of wonderful individual Vets out there, but the industry at large picked the wrong team years ago and has hawked half ass food all along, like the Dr Office version of sale items placed by the register at Walmart, glossy adverts on every counter.

Perhaps in a decade or more their opinion on such things will matter at all, if and only if they clean their own house, from an industry and community standpoint. Pediatricians ought not hawk Happy Meals, either... same damn thing, and it even has "Science" in the name, sounds fancy, right? Especially coming from a doctor. But it's McDs in a nice bag.

Agree 100%. Most sell Science Diet, one of the worst foods on the market. Corn, wheat, soy and animal byproducts.

Vets,do not spend much school time on Nutrition unless they choose to. It’s not a requirement.

SD funds most vet scholarships. Imagine that.

Wow, good to know how our "professional" pet folks think of vets on this board. I usually try my best to stay away from threads like these, which only breed frustration for me since I actually do have some experience. I don't have a pet store nor have I read the latest herbal remedies column from Dr. Doolittle, but I will try to wade my way through my position on this succinctly as possible.

Long before BB and their ilk were hawking "grain free" and the like, and before the mom and pop shops came along with the craft flavor of the month dog and cat foods, Hill's Nutrition was actually doing research (look it up, it involves things like double blind studies and the like) that demonstrated what macronutrients and micronutrients were needed in dog and cat foods. Their research, which cost them millions upon millions to perform over decades of time, and which was and is well published, was and is the cornerstone of much of what is known of animal nutrition today. It is also often looked to when the new start up companies begin to formulate their designer brands to cater to the masses.

So, SD gives scholarships to vets, and so it must be a scam that vets are in on? Truth is, virtually all dog food companies who manufacture therapeutic diets cater to vet students, because they'll show up and eat your free food and take your free dog food because they're college kids. Are they buying these grad students? Hardly. Vets are, as a whole, some of the most individualistic, go-your-own way people I know. On the contrary, I frequently see dog breeders who force their buyers to buy brand X's dog food as part of a puppy guarantee (sometimes from the breeder themselves) or it voids the puppy health guarantee. Never is there a mention that the dog food company gives them food for their kennels.

I'm amazed that dog food peddlers can tell you about the latest buy X get one free deal and in the same sentence tell you that a company like Hill's Science Diet is in it for the money and crap, while SD employs hundreds of animal nutritionists and veterinarians whose sole function in life is improving the nutrition of pets lives. Clearly it's all a scam, because guys who did a few feeding trials on a couple dozen dogs figured it all out in their back yard. Since SD is a big company, they must be the evil empire and strictly in it for the money, right? And all vets who use their products are either lackeys or schmucks? Mmk.

FYI, vets ARE required to study nutrition. It is not only a stand alone curriculum requirement, but is reinforced in every class we are taught. Renal disease? Yep, you'd better know what food to feed. Liver? Heart? All of them are different, and the wrong food prescription can literally cost a pet its life. Yes, I use some of Hill's foods. Some of their diets are specifically designed for diseases I must address. Many of those foods are never sold over the counter because, if they were fed outside of a specific need, they could literally cause death (hence the reason they don't trust otc sales reps to stand in the gap for pet owners). Some of their foods are not as good as those by Purina (the other Evil Empire?) or Royal Canin. Yes, we use those companies because they actually understand the scientific method and can clearly articulate why the food contains what it does and what level of ingredients it does.

If you want to use any food on the market, so long as it's AAFCO approved, knock yourself out. I'm not a dog food whore who sells out to one brand. Never have been, so feed what you want. Want to feed your cat a taurine deficient diet? Go for it. If you want to run over to Hollywood Feed and let Jimmy (who was working at the Big Star last month) straighten you out about how dumb your vet's recommendation was, and how he has just what your dog needs, along with a new knuckle bone, hey-knock yourself out. If you feel the need to run down the veterinary industry as ignorant in your enlightened presence, hey-you da man! I promise to be gentle next year when your geriatric dog is back with the next problem, and probably won't mention that some of the issues might be associated with Uncle Bennie's special dog formula. Carry on.

Thank you, Slabsides.

quote:

Originally posted by 4MUL8R:
I feed Orijen. Six Fish or Tundra. Great product.

+1

We used to use BB but use Merrick grain-free now. Similar price but we like the ingredients in Merrick.

Almost every vet I'v been to pushes Science Diet. Mainly the Rx food. The ingredients are not impressive. I'm guessing they get kickbacks from SD.

Slabside, no disrespect intended by my post. My comment was a generalization and refers to most vets, not all.

In our opinion Hills was the first premium pet food maker. They invested in research and made the best food at that time. Their Ideal Balance line is a good food. I do stand by my opinion that the current SD line is not. We feel that using animal byproducts has no place in pet food. Corn, wheat and soy are questionable ingredients that we do not recommend due to digestibilty and nutritional values.

SD prescription food does the job but some have those ingredients.

We feel that SD got left behind as the industry changed and they did not retain their leadership position with pet food.

We put Royal Canine in this same category, including the prescription line.

Please accept my apology if you feel that I disparaged the Vet community. I used a broad brush.

slabsides -

People that respond to these dog food threads are usually ones that have done a lot of their own investigating of the subject - which includes input from veterinarians and other people knowledgeable about dogs and what's best for them. In most cases they are not the ones who buy cheap crap at "Hollywood Feed" and the like. Because you're a veterinarian you get to dismiss the notion that anybody who isn't cannot possibly have the intelligence to research the topic of dog food and have any discernment about what's good, and what's not? Thanks, good to know what all veterinarians think about all pet owners. Mmk?

Looking at ingredient lists - not only what, but where they fall in the listing - the Hill's products being sold by my veterinarian aren't all that different from the low quality food I can get at Walmart. Hill's may have been a quality product at one time - and I suppose if you think the primary components of high quality dog food should be animal byproducts, corn, wheat, and soy, then for you it still is - but they have changed, and not for the better.

I understand you wanting to protect the people in your profession. I don't see this thread as being a diatribe against veterinarians. It's about dog food, and with as much knowledge as is available on the subject there is reason to have a critical view of this aspect of veterinarians because they are steadfastly loyal to a company that produces a product of questionable quality.

Do I recommend taking your pet to the vet. for shots, medical issues, and emergencies? Damn straight I do. And, like you mentioned in your post, the veterinarians I'm familiar with are some of the best and most unique people I've ever met. Their knowledge of what to do to fix my injured pup and the care they showed has earned them a top spot in my heart. I just disagree with them on this particular topic.

Great info. Thanks all!

quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Yarchin:
Slabside, no disrespect intended by my post. My comment was a generalization and refers to most vets, not all.

In our opinion Hills was the first premium pet food maker. They invested in research and made the best food at that time. Their Ideal Balance line is a good food. I do stand by my opinion that the current SD line is not. We feel that using animal byproducts has no place in pet food. Corn, wheat and soy are questionable ingredients that we do not recommend due to digestibilty and nutritional values.

SD prescription food does the job but some have those ingredients.

We feel that SD got left behind as the industry changed and they did not retain their leadership position with pet food.

We put Royal Canine in this same category, including the prescription line.

Please accept my apology if you feel that I disparaged the Vet community. I used a broad brush.

I tend to disagree. You cannot compare what a wild dog, or a dogs predecessor 100 years ago ate and thrives on compared to domestic pets. Wild dogs may need an almost all protein diet as they're constantly moving and running, but then again wild dogs have a lifespan much lower than their domestic brothers and sisters. I don't find this to be true in the wild either, wild dogs do eat a lot of grainy non protein items such as grass, corn, wheat, berries, and the like. Whatever they can get their hands on it seems like. I am not a Vet, nor an expert at pet food. But, my ex girlfriends sister has been a veterinarian tech for a large, well respected, animal hospital for a very long time and huge dog lover. She feeds her own dogs science diet, which says a lot to me. Perhaps domestic dogs do need carbs of some sort. I really don't know. But it seems you see these posts of boutique flavors of the year....one year everyone on the forum is quite happy with Blue Buffalo, next year it's Orejein, next it's this one. What truly is the quality control at some of these small, boutique brands?

All I know is my dog is 8 years old now, he is very healthy, his blood test numbers were all perfect, he's got plenty of energy,a perfect coat, and he eat's science diet. When I was younger, we fed our dogs Alpo or Pedigree, pretty much that's what everyone fed.....I grew up with German Sheperds, and they all lived to be 12-14 years old and were healthy all of the way till the end except for hip issues in 2 of them, they all died of old age and none of them had to be put down, and none of them had cancer or other weird diseases or even had to go to the vet because they got sick.

I’m not here to argue Jimmy. Agree or not, your call. My advice to you is to read and understand The ingredient panel and make the call you are comfortable with.

I changed to Fromme many years back, rotate between the selection of grain free flavors each bag without any digestive system stress

They’ve never had a food recall

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:

quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Yarchin:
Slabside, no disrespect intended by my post. My comment was a generalization and refers to most vets, not all.

In our opinion Hills was the first premium pet food maker. They invested in research and made the best food at that time. Their Ideal Balance line is a good food. I do stand by my opinion that the current SD line is not. We feel that using animal byproducts has no place in pet food. Corn, wheat and soy are questionable ingredients that we do not recommend due to digestibilty and nutritional values.

SD prescription food does the job but some have those ingredients.

We feel that SD got left behind as the industry changed and they did not retain their leadership position with pet food.

We put Royal Canine in this same category, including the prescription line.

Please accept my apology if you feel that I disparaged the Vet community. I used a broad brush.

I tend to disagree. You cannot compare what a wild dog, or a dogs predecessor 100 years ago ate and thrives on compared to domestic pets. Wild dogs may need an almost all protein diet as they're constantly moving and running, but then again wild dogs have a lifespan much lower than their domestic brothers and sisters. I don't find this to be true in the wild either, wild dogs do eat a lot of grainy non protein items such as grass, corn, wheat, berries, and the like. Whatever they can get their hands on it seems like. I am not a Vet, nor an expert at pet food. But, my ex girlfriends sister has been a veterinarian tech for a large, well respected, animal hospital for a very long time and huge dog lover. She feeds her own dogs science diet, which says a lot to me. Perhaps domestic dogs do need carbs of some sort. I really don't know. But it seems you see these posts of boutique flavors of the year....one year everyone on the forum is quite happy with Blue Buffalo, next year it's Orejein, next it's this one. What truly is the quality control at some of these small, boutique brands?

All I know is my dog is 8 years old now, he is very healthy, his blood test numbers were all perfect, he's got plenty of energy,a perfect coat, and he eat's science diet. When I was younger, we fed our dogs Alpo or Pedigree, pretty much that's what everyone fed.....I grew up with German Sheperds, and they all lived to be 12-14 years old and were healthy all of the way till the end except for hip issues in 2 of them, they all died of old age and none of them had to be put down, and none of them had cancer or other weird diseases or even had to go to the vet because they got sick.

So, as a long time vet tech myself, I’ll tell you when I worked in a clinic, and when I was doing my master’s at a major vet college, I bought the food they pushed, and I guarantee you it was Science Diet. You know why I bought it? Major discount.
And as someone who typically had more than 1 dog, it was much more feasible for me. At the vet college, for sure they had nutrition courses, at least when we talked renal, we talked about how to address concerns nutritionally, etc. I do not recall them stating “feed Science Diet for taurine deficiencies, etc ” because that would definitely constitute a kickback. BUT, if they had a pizza party right after class and Science Diet funded it, and chatted about their line while we studied, hey hey hey.
Can’t tell you how many seminars I’ve been to funded by Science Diet where the seminar speaker has suggested their products. Of course, they provide a disclaimer just as Idexx suggests their products for seminars involving blood sampling, etc.

That said, one of my lives as a tech involved working in tox research and I know for a fact that many foods specifically geared for a certain imbalance really do a great job. That’s what research is all about, and those foods designed for that are a literal lifesaver. As a general rule, though, for healthy dogs, I would use what I consider a more premium food: like Stella & Cheweys, Merrick, etc.
But that is based on my own personal research and experience. No disrespect intended to anyone, just my personal experiences. Best of luck, and talk to your own vet. Most have their own opinions on what’s best!

Thank you for that excellent post Irreverent.

Great to hear this perspective.

Anyone have any experience with Zignature?

It's what the few pet specialty stores around here tend to push.

thanks

We sell a ton of Zignature. It’s especially good for dogs that have allergies or need unique proteins.

It’s well priced and they have a frequent buyer program.

Edited to add, it is an excellent food.