quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:
Really great thread so far. Posters have stepped in and said police are criminals, untrustworthy and treat the public as the enemy.

Not surprised. Same shit, different day. There's been a vocal minority of members here on the forum ever since I've been here who clearly hold deeply-held convictions that most/all cops are crooks. The frequency and intensity of their comments ebb and flow with the prevailing forum sentiment (more vocal during the early Obama years when more members were worried about law enforcement coming to take all your guns and put you into FEMA camps, less vocal during the mid-2010s when there was a swell of pro-police support after folks started to get a taste of what happens in areas without effective law enforcement, etc.), but it's always been present. And any police-related thread is bound to draw at least a few of them.

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I'd like to see your stats to support the statement that MOST officers and/or agencies are dishonest.

It's an opinion based off of 34 years in Emergency Services, as an EMT and Firefighter. Additionally, my best friend growing up joined a local police force a few years after high school. He worked for 2 different departments (5 years at one and 15 at the other) 20 years later he left law enforcement and basically told me the corruption is real. He wasn't talking about cops letting off duty cops go without a traffic ticket. He was talking about stealing, fabricating evidence or flat out lying about seeing an infraction so they could cite someone, especially if that someone mouthed off to them. I trust this guy like a brother, call his mother my 2nd mom (only other woman on earth I call mom).

You can ask for stats all you want, you can disagree all you want too but you will NEVER convince me that the majority of law enforcement today isn't corrupt.

Out of respect for the forum owner who I know is a staunch supporter of law enforcement, I won't comment further in this thread (in regards to my opinions about law enforcement).

My final comments are to those who are LEO's. Can you honestly look yourself in the mirror and say you never done anything sketchy as an LEO? Can you honestly say that you've never seen another LEO do anything sketchy? Finally if you have seen them do something sketchy, did you report it? I'll go out on a limb and say doubtful, as the Thin Blue Line doesn't allow LEO's to report on other LEO's. Doing so puts you on the rat list and could at the least mean backup is going to take their time getting to you and at most could cost you your life.

Corruption is real.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: sigarms229,

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Originally posted by Rick Lee:

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Originally posted by airbubba:

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Originally posted by Rick Lee:
Exact same kind of situation happened to me about 10 yrs ago in Phoenix, right by my house. No way in the world I was going 63 in a 45 zone while approaching a red light on a stone cold old air-cooled engine. I had just fired up the car and left my house two minutes earlier. I didn't argue, just went and did my research. Turns out AZ has a law that a speed limit is invalid if no road study has been done on that road. And - ta da - I got an email from the city trans. dept. stating that section of Tatum Blvd. had not had a road study done. So in that case the speed limit defaults to "reasonable and prudent up to 65mph, conditions permitting." Since he got me at 63, I was below the R&P limit. I went to court, all prepared and, well, the cop no-showed. They waited for him, but he didn't come and I was dismissed.

as i recall pv was the 1st to use radar on tatum/lincoln drive, i've been in phoenix for 40+ years!!

pv is the only jurisdiction in the valley that i'm dead-on the speed limit....still a speed trap!!

I have a nice photo radar printout on my office wall from PV. You can blow those off and PV don't bother with process servers or alternate service like Scottsdale does. 120 days and it goes away.

good to know, thanks!!

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Can you honestly look yourself in the mirror and say you never done anything sketchy as an LEO?

Yes, I can. After the work day is done I still have to live with myself, and I'll still have to live with myself after I'm done with this job. No job is worth my integrity. I'm not a perfect person, and I've made plenty of mistakes, but I'll own them and I've never willfully violated anyone's rights.

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Can you honestly say that you've never seen another LEO do anything sketchy?

Nope, I can't say that. Because I've seen it. And I've also seen them get disciplined and even fired for it. Like I said in my first post in this thread, LEOs aren't perfect...nobody is.

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Finally if you have seen them do something sketchy, did you report it?

I have. I didn't enjoy it, but I did it. A buddy of mine recently had to be involved in the arrest of another local officer for OWI. That officer lost his job and is facing criminal prosecution, without any of the leniency that I regularly see afforded to the general public by our prosecutor's office.

You clearly have a very jaded view of law enforcement. Maybe you just live in an area with an inordinate number of scumbags. But in 13 years of working the road I can honestly say I'm proud to have known and worked with the vast majority of the guys that I have. Like in any job there's a portion who I dislike or disagree with on personality or procedural grounds, but not due to anything immoral or illegal. The unethical and corrupt are a tiny minority, and have been consistently dealt with when their behavior can be proven.

Based on your map, you cruised through a town of 327. That pretty much defines the stereotype of the southern, small town, overly aggressive department. The phrase "ya'll ain't from around here, is ya boy" would have cemented it.

I'll guess you have sufficient evidence to win this pretty quick. You likely aren't the first.

Michigan State Police got fed up with this about 5 or so years ago and set up a method where you could report things like this, or illegal speed traps (like the 25mph school zone in front of a school that was demolished 3 years ago in a normal 45 zone). If they determined the citation was not legal they will void it before it ever gets to court. Then they go after that agency.

I wonder if the Georgia State Police would have similar interest.

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Were there any stoplights or stop signs along your route?

Combining the distance and time data displayed on your App's map along with basic physics that Distance/Time = Speed

1.6 miles/2 minutes drive time = 48 miles per hour.



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Originally posted by 92fstech:


Yes, I can.

You should well know you can’t rationalize with people who are irrational.

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Originally posted by jljones:

You should well know you can’t rationalize with people who are irrational.

Oh I'm clear. But sometimes it's worth the effort if only for the benefit of others.

I’ve had a few traffic stops, thankfully mostly a long, long time ago. Back then I picked up more than a few tickets. There wasn’t one I didn’t “earn”.

I’ve had other interactions with local law enforcement. I’ve seen an officer or two who appeared to be having a bad day, but I’ve never seen an officer who wasn’t professionally doing a job that I absolutely couldn’t rent the patience to do. I’m sure all cops aren’t perfect, they are human after all, but they certainly aren’t all bad either.

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Originally posted by jljones:

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Originally posted by 92fstech:


Yes, I can.

You should well know you can’t rationalize with people who are irrational.

100%

He mentions working for "emergency services". Probably tried to get a LEO job at some point, was denied, and is jaded.

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He mentions working for "emergency services". Probably tried to get a LEO job at some point, was denied, and is jaded.

Ok, so I will comment on this (but I will avoid my opinions on law enforcement).

My experience is as a Firefighter/EMT over the last 34 years (Joined as a junior firefighter at 16, got my EMT at 17). I have never tried to be an LEO. I have never been arrested and the only thing I've ever plead guilty to in regards to a violation was the ordinance violation and 1 failure to obey a traffic control device in my 34+ years of driving (I'm 50).

Like I said my opinions are based off of what I've seen in my years of Emergency Services and my interactions with a close friend, who left law enforcement, and another friend who is still in it as a public safety director (oversees police, fire and EMS in a large township).

I've know a lot of cops over the years. 10 years ago I wouldn't have considered myself anti-LEO but looking back over the years and looking at today's society I have a different view.

I travel 34 every week day. Set my cruise on 61 and just drive right by the deputies. Once on 74 where it turns to 50, I set it on 56, and drive right by the PTC cops trapping at Gilroys-Got-It.
Not stopped once.

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Originally posted by L90814:

He mentions working for "emergency services". Probably tried to get a LEO job at some point, was denied, and is jaded.

Wow. I could make a disparaging remark here, but won't.

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Originally posted by 92fstech:

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

You should well know you can’t rationalize with people who are irrational.

Oh I'm clear. But sometimes it's worth the effort if only for the benefit of others.

Totally understand. But, the flip side is giving bigots an audience.

Hey gang, I know that there are those that work in law enforcement here, there are those who fully support them, those who don't like them at all, and many in between. Please keep it civil. In every occupation, there are always the bad apples that gives it a bad name. Bad doctor, bad lawyer, hell, bad sex workers.

Update.

So, I spoke to a friend of mine who is a policy auxiliary here in the area. He's retired but works part time. He does school crossing and works at the courthouse. He provide some insight. That 71 mph has a reason behind it. 71 mph in a 55 is 16 over. 15 mph or less, there are no points on your drivers license. 16, there are points. Now you can draw your own conclusion there.

Now, he did print on the ticket that I was 70 and he reduced the citation to 68 mph in a 55 mph. The description was STA RA ONLY VEHICLE IN SIGHT REDUCED FROM 70. He claims I was the only vehicle. Although, there were some behind me. Based on another post, I suspect he got a reflection off a sign and got a car from across the way.

His advice initially was for me to ask for a pre-trial and speak to the solicitor. He didn't think it matter because he hasn't seen many people prevail. I will probably have to pay the fine.

However, his wife was adamant because I explained how I had supporting evidence that I didn't speed. He is going to talk to a judge and see if that if anyone has prevail with such evidence. If it is even worthwhile. My buddy offered to come to court with me because there is a good chance he will know the judge and vice versa. I will wait to hear from him.

The members that recommended that I get legal representation. Can I ask what specifically they do that I can't do in such a situation? What am I paying for?

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Originally posted by Beanhead:
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The members that recommended that I get legal representation. Can I ask what specifically they do that I can't do in such a situation? What am I paying for?

I'd imagine you'd be paying for them to do all the leg work and all the talking in court. Sounds like you have a solid connection, though.

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The members that recommended that I get legal representation. Can I ask what specifically they do that I can't do in such a situation? What am I paying for?

I'm sure it's different from state to state.

Here in MO you're getting an attorney (or practice) that usually specializes in tickets, works with these prosecutors all of the time, and pretty much has a standing agreement to obtain a non-point resolution. In return the municipality makes a bit more money.

As an example, you're $150 speeding ticket might become a $200 noisy muffler ticket.

You don't have to show up at court, and you avoid a tarnished driving record. This could have an impact on your insurance rates.

quote:

Originally posted by Poacher:
I travel 34 every week day. Set my cruise on 61 and just drive right by the deputies. Once on 74 where it turns to 50, I set it on 56, and drive right by the PTC cops trapping at Gilroys-Got-It.
Not stopped once.

There are so many speed traps around here...I do that literally myself. When I go up 54, I just set the cruise. PTC is ridiculous. You can drive 1/4 mile and see 3 cops right there by Race Trac.

I don't speed which is why I was incredulous...and at 71 mph?! I even set my Waze to beep me when I am above the speed limit to check. My app really only gets me when it changes to 65 from 70 on 285.

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Originally posted by a1abdj:

quote:

The members that recommended that I get legal representation. Can I ask what specifically they do that I can't do in such a situation? What am I paying for?

I'm sure it's different from state to state.

Here in MO you're getting an attorney (or practice) that usually specializes in tickets, works with these prosecutors all of the time, and pretty much has a standing agreement to obtain a non-point resolution. In return the municipality makes a bit more money.

As an example, you're $150 speeding ticket might become a $200 noisy muffler ticket.

You don't have to show up at court, and you avoid a tarnished driving record. This could have an impact on your insurance rates.

a1abdj is right... I used to do a lot of these here.

But I don't practice in your State and you may get a result that's just as good with your friend's help. It's worth a try. If it doesn't work out, you can ask for a continuance and tell the judge or PA that you'd like to seek an attorney.

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The members that recommended that I get legal representation. Can I ask what specifically they do that I can't do in such a situation? What am I paying for?

Call one and ask. They’ll tell you what they’ll do and what it will cost.