quote:

Originally posted by Censored:
I am getting ready (or just did) reach 3 or 4 million miles on Delta alone. I fall asleep within 15 minutes of sitting in my seat. Board the plane tired.

I passed those miles years ago, combined on several airlines and its the same for me, get on early, put my stuff up, and fall asleep.

My biggest issue is the waiting for the oversized person to take the center seat between me and Merlin Olsens doppleganger that I always seem to be paired with. I know they don't want to be there anymore than me but its the draw.

What I hate is seeing the skinny hot body single gal in yoga pants sit in another row, skinny people never take the middle seat near me...

I've had plenty of the "experiences" that other who fear flying are concerned about, wheels down with out locking lights, engine issues, bad weather, zero visibility, hell I had a Stew- ah Flight Attendant actually ask me to pass her my airsickness bag over Indy in a very very rough storm, so bad after three attempts we were diverted twice.

You know what helps overcome the fear?

Flying.

Watch for some cheap fares out and back somewhere and buy a ticket. Then get on the plane and fly.

Thinking about it wont make it better.

I was never concerned with flying and couldn't understand how anyone was deathly afraid to fly. Yeah it's a bit different, you're up in the air, you have turbulence bumps, etc. But statistically it's super safe. Always looked at folks who were afraid to fly as wussies or unable to control themselves.

UNTIL I found out I was claustrophobic while taking an MRI. Now I can absolutely understand somewhat irrational fears. Shit. I had nightmares from the danged MRI about once a week for a month!

Best suggestion I could make is fly with a friend and take a tranquilizer.

Never been on a plane of any size in my 64 years. When the subject comes up and I tell that to someone they assume it's because I'm afraid of flying and either sympathize with me or proceed to try and assure me it's safe...

... nope, not afraid, just never had an occasion to fly.

My flying in the military scared the crap out of me. Often, I was hurtling across the sky in an aircraft older than me!
Civil aviation does not bother me. The BS associated with it is another matter altogether.

A very wonderful lady knew of my fear of flying. She gifted me with a Zuni buffalo fetish (small statute) and had me carry it on my next flight.

OK, mostly psychological but it worked. Yes having that person have faith in my ability to overcome my fear was a big part of it.

I don’t “love” to fly but made a 18 hour flight this summer. Biggest problem was all that sitting.

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
You know what helps overcome the fear?

Flying.

I read a recent interview with David Lee Roth, lead singer of Van Halen, and I did not know until now that he had a fear of flying. He said one way of facing that fear was taking helicopter pilot lessons.

quote:

Originally posted by oddball:

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
You know what helps overcome the fear?

Flying.

I read a recent interview with David Lee Roth, lead singer of Van Halen, and I did not know until now that he had a fear of flying. He said one way of facing that fear was taking helicopter pilot lessons.

I developed a fear similar to yours in my 20s. I flew a lot before then and then suddenly started getting serious anxiety, especially during turbulence. I've had to fly a lot since then and the fear has subsided quite a bit...(knock on wood)

I've been on multi-hundreds of flights. That all stopped 5 years ago when my son was born.

My dad wasn't around when I was a kid, which seriously impacted me, emotionally. I vowed that I would always be in my kids life, no matter what, and my little brain says no more airplanes.

Right, wrong, indifferent, logic or not, I avoid airplanes at all cost now.

" flying was more fear of being confined with 150 of my closest friends with no way out"

a gentle way to put it....

I rather enjoyed flying from 1953 with (so help me) Arthur Godfrey as pilot of the DC3 on a '50th anniversary of flight' promotion, until around 1994 or so. Discovered I had not 'fear of flying' but 'claustrophobia'.

I don’t fear flying, but I don’t care for flying as cargo. First, I’d much rather be in one of the two front seats. Second, as a control freak I don’t enjoy sitting in the back trusting, knowing it is completely out of my hands.

The airline equipment is way safer than any of the pistol singles or twins I fly, way more capable. They have two professional pilots, who while they may not always have more time or more ratings than I do, almost certainly both have more recent experience in type as well was more recent training. I still don’t like not being in control. Oh well, nobody said I had to like it...

Your fear of flying may really a fear of death as a result of you not being in control. It may also mean you don't understand the strict safety rules that exist in aviation as well as the intense maintenance and inspection schedule that every aircraft and its subsystem gets on a daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly, annual basis. You probably don't understand the detailed flight and maintenance logs that each aircraft has that must me maintained to remain operational.

Here's a little background into my flying experiences...

I was avionics/helicopter aircrew in The Marines. We had a close relationship with the pilots so I actually managed a few hours of stick time in a CH-53E when we were flying cross country over the middle of nowhere. That was a nice experience and I'm blessed to have had the opportunity (even if it was off the record) to fly one of those massive machines while in the co-pilot's seat.

My parents never flew anywhere but I wanted to so I get into the aviation job when I enlisted. I was never combat aircrew but even in peacetime, we trained doing some scary stuff. Flying around at night in low light conditions on night vision goggles around the desert and out in the open ocean, landing on ships in pitch black darkness. Landing in areas where we could barely fit our rotor blades around trees or steep terrain where the rotor could strike the ground, or in the snow where you could have a white-out.

It was risky and sometimes fun. The most dangerous flights were low light level terrain flights or low light level ship to ship landings in rough seas. In a terrain flight, the aircrew is just along for the ride and our lives are in complete control of the pilots. During landings and when hovering for other things, the pilots depended on us to see what they couldn't and communication was critical.

I can only remember one flight that I was truly scared and my knees were shaking when it was over. We were on the deck of the USS Tarawa in the middle of the Pacific Ocean doing low light level night vision ship to ship landings. All lights on the ship were turned off. As soon as we pulled into a hover, the pilot said "I have vertigo, take controls." The co-pilot said "I have controls." About 30 seconds later the co-pilot said "I have vertigo, take controls." The pilot said "I have controls."

They went back and forth with vertigo for a few minutes and I was just sitting in the back with a sphincter pucker factor of ELEVEN! For the next four hours, we flew from ship to ship in total darkness, landing in rough seas in total darkness. At the end of it all my nerves were shot. That's the only kind of flying we did that ever made me uneasy. If anything ever went wrong and we took a drink, I knew we'd never be found.

I guess the point of me telling you that is because from my point of view, I did things that were extremely hazardous and I consider myself blessed to be alive today, considering the things that I've done in my youth, and in a high risk job. I've accepted the fact that I don't know how I'm going to go. I may die in a car crash after posting this message on my way home tonight. I may live to be 110 but I doubt it. I may die of cancer in 5 years. I don't know how my maker will call me home but I'm not going to let fear stop me from enjoying my life.

I know all about military aviation but not much about civilian aviation but I'm pretty sure its quite squared away and I feel much safer on Delta or United than I did when I was the one doing the pre-flight. Once I'm on the plane, I lean back, close my eyes and sleep. Sometimes I fall asleep before wheels-up.

Tony.

quote:

Originally posted by benny6:

I can only remember one flight that I was truly scared and my knees were shaking when it was over. We were on the deck of the USS Tarawa in the middle of the Pacific Ocean doing low light level night vision ship to ship landings. All lights on the ship were turned off. As soon as we pulled into a hover, the pilot said "I have vertigo, take controls." The co-pilot said "I have controls." About 30 seconds later the co-pilot said "I have vertigo, take controls." The pilot said "I have controls."

They went back and forth with vertigo for a few minutes and I was just sitting in the back with a sphincter pucker factor of ELEVEN! For the next four hours, we flew from ship to ship in total darkness, landing in rough seas in total darkness. At the end of it all my nerves were shot. That's the only kind of flying we did that ever made me uneasy. If anything ever went wrong and we took a drink, I knew we'd never be found.

That's a bad feeling, and the danger is very, very real.

One of the worst I've had it was a couple of years ago west of Reno in heavy smoke, enroute to a fire. absolutely no sense of up or down or spatial orientation. Really uncomfortable.

There are a lot of gotcha's in aviation and some very serious risks that come with them.

That your crew was able to recognize their condition, hand it off, and continue to do so as affected, is a testament to their training and was a professional act. There are a lot of dead people out there who didn't have the benefit of that level of operational honesty, or the ability to deal with it.

I've got over 500 round trips on Southwest in 20 years. I'm a very satisfied with SW and it's style of flying. I'm basically a commuter.

I haven't seen too many flier who were freaked out or having negative physical reactions.

I'd suggest an easy flight to experiment with. Get familiar with the process.

Thanks for all the responses.

I definitely have control issues. I did a discovery flight in a Cessna 172 where I was in the left front seat, and while I was uncomfortable being airborne, it wan't nearly as bad as being in the back of a commercial jet. I really like knowing what is going on..and I trust myself to deal with problems if they arise.

Also, I know A LOT about the principles involved in flight and the way airplanes work, maintenance and inspections and all that. The knowledge hasn't helped me much. The fear is not a logical one. It's something subconscious and emotional.

quote:

Originally posted by bubbatime:
I've been on multi-hundreds of flights. That all stopped 5 years ago when my son was born.

My dad wasn't around when I was a kid, which seriously impacted me, emotionally. I vowed that I would always be in my kids life, no matter what, and my little brain says no more airplanes.

Right, wrong, indifferent, logic or not, I avoid airplanes at all cost now.

I have heard this many times. Life changes are often triggers to phobias. It is extremely common for newlyweds and new parents to develop a fear of flying.

As for me, I can't pinpoint exactly when my fear began, but I can't think of major life changes in that timeframe (other than starting my law career) that might account for the new fear.

It is difficult to help you with overcoming the fear of flying without understanding the root of the issue.

Were you involved in an incident or evacuation?

Is it take off, cruising, or landing that bothers you?

Turbulence an issue?

The origins of phobias are complex. Reasoning with someone who has a phobia is worthless. Treatment works. Even Freud had phobias.

I've flown a lot and never had any issues. Took a business trip, 4 of us, from Wheeling WV to Kentucky. We have a company policy we only fly private if there is a pilot and copilot. The copilot couldn't make the trip, we decided since it was a short flight we would still take the trip with only one pilot. Short trip so we took a small 2 engine prop that was not pressurized so we stayed at about 10k feet if I remember correctly. On the way back not long into the flight the right engine feathered and shut down almost instantly. The left engine started to feather but never actually shut off but you could hear the rpms cut way back. The pilot switched to a reserve tank before take off on the way back to burn that fuel and forgot to switch back to the main tank. I can only remember him throwing his books and notepads around trying to get to a pump or something that would allow gas to get back to the engines. There was something he had to pump up. I really don't remember how much altitude we lost but we were not very high to begin with. Since then it takes a minimum of 10 mg of valium to get me on a flight.

quote:

Originally posted by Rightwire:
It is difficult to help you with overcoming the fear of flying without understanding the root of the issue.

Were you involved in an incident or evacuation?

Is it take off, cruising, or landing that bothers you?

Turbulence an issue?

I don't recall any flights that were particularly memorable. I have been in one aborted landing, where the pilot pulled up a little bit short of the runway and went around. It was not sudden or frightening to me. Just disappointing that we would be delayed. Other than that I can't recall a particularly bad flight. I have never been involved in any kind of real emergency situation or evacuation.

For me, I think the biggest issue is cruising (which I know is statistically the safest part of the flight). I do get anxious after we leave the runway. I am glued to the window to make sure that we are climbing. I do find the the 10K ft. bell and the flight attendant announcement that always follows it reassuring as a sign that so far everything is normal. During cruise I am the most anxious. It's as if I am just waiting for something to happen, a bomb to explode, an engine to conk out, the flight controls to go haywire, whatever. Turbulence definitely bothers me, even though I know it's normal and totally safe. Every little bump makes me think that the severe turbulence is right ahead. A lot of times the pilot says in the beginning "Folks, we're expecting a smooth flight to wherever so sit back and enjoy." When there's turbulence on those flights that they weren't expecting, it's definitely unsettling. I spend most of the cruise time watching the flight attendants to see if they are smiling and happy and acting normally.

I also hate flying above cloud cover. It makes me very anxious if I can't see the ground.

Landing doesn't bother me very much. I think it is because I am happy to be coming down from 36K feet and to know that the flight is coming to an end. I do have to say though, the over water approaches at places like LGA and SFO are a little scary where it seems like you are flying into the water until right before touchdown where the runway appears.

50 years of flying so often that I think there were times in my life that I spent more time in the air than on the ground. I had 40 hours in a 172 as a young man but couldn't afford to continue flight training on my own dime. I still get butterflies in the air at times. I think frequent flying sort of numbs you to any fears you might have. I do dread the whole process of commercial flights nowadays with the cattle drive, cramped cabins and seats, sick people, etc, and tend to avoid flying whenever I can.