It’s a drift from the topic but this nonsense is because leftist are generally have nots. The have nots tend to feel they deserve the things or life of the haves and often they take it or lash out in spite. The leftists see the criminal suffer consequences and they also see the criminal as one of their own. They demand understanding and forgiveness of their values. Tell you that you only suffered a little due to your unfairness. On and on.

How expensive would it be the put solid doors with the heavy duty locks (that's can't be blasted easily) in all of our schools?

There are any number of physical security and protocol measures that could be adopted to make it very difficult for an intruder to do the same sorts of things that have been most common in past incidents. In my (albeit limited) experience, for whatever reasons schools don’t adopt them.

And then there is the question of what could someone do in spite of those measures. That’s something I’ve thought about a lot, but will leave it at that.

I retired after 30 years in a school district in western Washington a year ago.
They talk about not wanting to feel like a prison, which means lots of windows everywhere.
My district installed big fences around all the schools, but they leave the gates open and unlocked all day, and the custodians leave them open until they leave at night.
Doors are often held unlatched with a rock or a piece of wood.
We haven’t had a major incident yet so people become complacent.
Security is unarmed. High schools are the only schools with a police officer, but one incident stands out.
The officer handcuffed a girl who had attacked several people with her fists including the principal. Oh no, can’t have that, the superintendent had him removed from the school.

My wife grew up in Bend, she still communicates with a woman who is friends with the hero.
She’s upset and praying for this country and so am I.
I’m glad I retired, one more day in the “No Gun Zone” might have been more than I could take.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: tomgun,

One of the many reasons we chose to move where we did was because the schools take security seriously even in our low crime area. The grade school my daughter attended and that my ex-wife works at along with the middle school and high school both kids attended all have dedicated armed police officers on site at all times. In addition the office of all three schools are man-traps and in order to access the classrooms you have to pass through the office. In all three there is bulletproof glass separating the staff from any guest. And in order to access the school during normal hours you have to be escorted by a staff member, and if you are working with kids you have to be a registered volunteer that requires undergoing a background check.

All of the exterior doors are monitored so one can’t be left propped open without setting off an alarm. In addition the high school has metal detectors to help deter students or staff from bringing in a weapon and so know that at least in the middle school and elementary school all classroom doors remain locked at all times.

Of course none of this makes the school 100% secure but at least they have taken reasonable precautions and have at least one armed officer on-site. It is unbelievable to me that every school doesn’t have an armed officer and more protections to keep people out.

Pale Horse those are all smart reasonable things a district should do.
To be blunt here, my district is too caught up in liberal BS to make smart decisions to keep people safe.

quote:

Originally posted by Graniteguy:
How expensive would it be the put solid doors with the heavy duty locks (that's can't be blasted easily) in all of our schools?

Doesn't matter. IIRC, the Uvalde shooter gained access due to someone propping a door open. Install all the security you want, but that security will feel like a straight jacket to some. And someone will try to bypass it for convenience.

quote:

Originally posted by XinTX:

quote:

Originally posted by Graniteguy:
How expensive would it be the put solid doors with the heavy duty locks (that's can't be blasted easily) in all of our schools?

Doesn't matter. IIRC, the Uvalde shooter gained access due to someone propping a door open. Install all the security you want, but that security will feel like a straight jacket to some. And someone will try to bypass it for convenience.

Agreed.

I’m over SROs in 49 schools. All have locked exterior doors, metal detectors, etc.

I believe we have found 4 guns so far this year, and some of that was luck.

Regardless, it’s a layered approach, just like home security.

But a determined attacker will get in. I worry about it every single day.

Thank goodness for this teacher and the father.

Steel doors, metal detectors, installing man traps, All of these items can be beaten-a door propped open, a window open, glass in general.

And armed force/response-on scene- is the only answer to defeating invading forces hell bent on harming children. Until that happens at every school, the rest is noise.

My kids middle school shared an SRO with the elementary school next door-you could tell where he was based on the location of his police truck.

His current high school has a single officer who couldn’t outrun a donut. Anyone with children still in school should be screaming from on high demanding an officer in every school-every day (not shared officers).

quote:

Originally posted by MikeinNC:
Steel doors, metal detectors, installing man traps, All of these items can be beaten-a door propped open, a window open, glass in general.

And armed force/response-on scene- is the only answer to defeating invading forces hell bent on harming children. Until that happens at every school, the rest is noise.

As I said nothing is 100%. Even an armed officer onsite is no guarantee. We’ve seen multiple school shootings where armed officers were onsite and didn’t do shit.

But there are a lot of things schools can do that they don’t. While imperfect alone, every layer of security can be helpful.

Ultimately an armed officer is probably the most important layer, as long as that officer is actually willing and able to engage.

Where we lived in GA had a similar situation as you mention. There was one officer for two schools and I won’t judge his bravery but I have my doubts about his ability to cover the 200 yards between schools without being completely winded.

The simple fact is that the greatest threat to security of any sort are the human beings responsible for implementing it.* People are ignorant of threats and what can be done to mitigate them, but just as often, if not more so, simply don’t want to be bothered. Plus it all costs money.

During one presentation to a church that I participated in, we tried to keep it low key—no mention of locked doors or armed parishioners—mostly just situational awareness. The pastor’s response when we were finished? “No, we’re not going to do that.” People want their windows, the ability to get in if they forget their key, need the door unlocked or even propped open, no annoying exercises, etc.

And of course except in a minuscule number of times, they’re right: Nothing bad is going to happen. But despite RKBA and all that, I do wish parents would keep guns away from their nutso kids—or any kids at all.

* Who knows why we shouldn’t leave an open padlock hanging on a hasp in a public place?

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
* Who knows why we shouldn’t leave an open padlock hanging on a hasp in a public place?

Because innocents can be locked into a place as easily as they try to lock miscreants out?

And, somebody’ll steal the lock.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:

quote:

Originally posted by armored:
About 95% of the story dealt with the Teacher who threw the phone

And TACKLED the shooter.

quote:

Originally posted by armored:
...and a barely mentioned segment about the guy who actually stopped the massacre.

You don't think the woman that tackled the shooter deserves a little credit for actually stopping the massacre?

The (unarmed) Teacher who whipped a phone at, then tackled the shooter is definitely a hero. Without a doubt! I would say that the Teacher is probably more so than armed individual.

He’s got a gun, I don’t, but I’m still going to do something.

However, I believe the point of Mr Armored’s post was the absolute shitty reporting some media outlets do. Specifically Chicago’s left wing, liberal bullshit.
Again, the Teacher has a set of balls bigger than church bells! No, that person’s heroism should not be glossed over. Neither should the “Good guy with a gun” side of that story. The problem is, the “Good guy with a gun” doesn’t fit the narrative and agenda of the propaganda that local outlets spew.

In leaving that detail out, armored's post is no better than the news story he complained about. Lead by example, practice what you preach, etc.

His post was the first I had heard of the teacher. Imagine my shock to learn elsewhere the teacher TACKLED the shooter. If I were going to skip a detail of the story, I'd have skipped the phone throw and not the tackled the shooter.

Regarding the padlock:

It’s not common for occupied structures to be secured with padlocks, and it would more likely be something like a shed or storage container. Someone could be locked in as mentioned, but the motive would be the question: Why?

Stealing a lock would be possible, and I’ve often thought that if someone wanted to annoy the police, a way of doing that would be to take the lock to my range gate. Of more possible importance would be, “Where’s the lock? I guess I’ll have to get another and lock it up tomorrow.” Something like that could actually be someone’s motive: “They will leave it unlocked until they can replace the lock, and by then I’ll have been in and out.”

The most devious threat to physical security would be for someone to switch the original lock with an identical model. When the replacement gets locked, the thief is able to come back at night/on the weekend, open his lock with his key, do his business, and then relock with the original lock. “Hey, what happened? How did anyone get in? It must have been an inside job; I never did trust that Joe.”

There have been other brave, but not too smart responses to active killer incidents. It has happened a few times that a teacher or school staff member has confronted a shooter with, “Billy, what are you doing? Don’t you know that’s wro…,” BANG!
It’s not enough to just be brave, smart action is also necessary, and that means fighting effectively.

Don't need full timed armed security. Though that would be great. Just remove the prohibition on good guys carrying in the schools. As it is now, predators KNOW they'll face no armed resistance. Remove the prohibition and now the predators won't know they have a free fire zone. A few teachers/custodians/administrators capping the next few distressed tranny kids will go a long way toward discouraging the next ones.

I’ve tried to keep up on this but might have overlooked it.

Has there been any info on background of individual as to the “why” and “who”, other than a 16-year old former student there who was an angel and wouldn’t hurt a fly per his mother’s comments ?

quote:

Originally posted by XinTX:
Don't need full timed armed security. Though that would be great. Just remove the prohibition on good guys carrying in the schools. As it is now, predators KNOW they'll face no armed resistance. Remove the prohibition and now the predators won't know they have a free fire zone. A few teachers/custodians/administrators capping the next few distressed tranny kids will go a long way toward discouraging the next ones.

And then what? Will you throw out a “hell yeah brother” when the eventuality happens and a “good guy with a gun” does more harm than the shooter? I know a bunch of really good guys that have guns. But I want to be no where around them when the shooting starts. They are great guys with a good heart. The Second Amendment requires no training. And the law of averages tell us that one of these times won’t work out in our favor.

The cops are the answer? Most SROs are in that job for a reason other than they are the meat eater we want protecting our kids. Most school administrators loath having SROs. They have all the money in the world to build their empire, have fancy facilities that make a third world dictator blush. But properly training SROs is not a priority.

I understand your sentiment. I do. But bumper sticker slogans aren’t the answer. We KNOW the answer. The threat has not changed since Columbine. Uvalde proved that cops are mostly inept for a multitude of reasons. It’s time for us as a nation to take this seriously. I don’t think we will.

IMO jones post is absolutely correct.
I was patrol in my district, but I spent enough time in the schools to see how admin felt about us security guys and the police officers assigned to the high schools.
The money goes to remodeling the huge admin building and other things that have zero to do with keeping students and staff safe.
I spent 30 years there and thought about this a lot.
We had a lot of confiscated guns and other weapons.
They wouldn’t even listen when we’d try to make our case for tasers.
Everyday we’d say I hope this isn’t the day something really bad happens.