Been reading a thread on Facebook in the Villages where lots of folks got contaminated fuel at a local BJs. Engines not running right or at all. Turns out there was a big contamination at the Port of Tampa Bay by Citgo.

I'm wondering if they just need to drain and clean out the gas or if they have done permanent damage. What do the mechanics say?

https://www.tampabay.com/hurri...ontamination-idalia/

Florida officials are warning of a “potentially widespread fuel contamination” that may have resulted in people getting fuel from some Florida gas stations that could harm or disable their engines just as Tropical Storm Idalia may put residents on the road or in search of gas to power their generators.

The Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services issued an alert Sunday afternoon stating that gas that was supplied out of Port Tampa Bay by Citgo had become contaminated because of “human error.”

People who received fuel from more than two dozen gas stations across Florida’s Gulf Coast, including several in the immediate Tampa area, could have contaminated fuel if it was purchased after 10 a.m. Saturday, according to the agency.

Citgo-supplied gas stations as far south as Fort Myers and as north as Brooksville were believed to have received the contaminated fuel, according to the agency.

The alert initially said that Citgo “will not release the list of gas stations that received contaminated fuel” but that state officials knew that fuel from the port “serves gas stations in the greater Tampa region north to Chiefland, and on the west side of Florida south to Naples.”

“Citgo sells gas to BJs, 7-Eleven, and also some unbranded stations,” department officials said in the alert, noting that they “will send a more accurate list as it becomes available.”

The state later released the stations that were believed to have received the contaminated fuel. (The list of stations is at the bottom of this story.)

The announcement was made soon after Tropical Storm Idalia formed. The storm is expected to become a hurricane later this week and threaten the west coast of Florida, where the contaminated fuel was distributed.

The issue was raised at a news conference Gov. Ron DeSantis held Sunday afternoon to talk about storm preparation.

“It has nothing to do with the storm, but it’s happening right on the eve of the storm,” he said.

DeSantis acknowledged the fuel situation may complicate matters.

”You’re going to have people potentially just stuck on the side of the road, I mean, if you fill up your tank with diesel and then you start driving it, it’s not going to end well,” he said.

Gas that is contaminated with diesel fuel has “the potential of causing engine damage or affecting operability,” the department’s alert states.

“Impacted stations have been asked to stop selling gas until the contaminated fuel is replaced and tanks are cleaned. Once the stations are cleared or have completed a corrective action plan fuel will once again be safe for purchase,” the alert states.

A spokesperson for Port Tampa Bay said Citgo is a “privately-held terminal,” which means the port itself has no oversight over Citgo’s facility, even though it rests within the port’s footprint. That means any details about the “human error” leading to fuel contamination would have to come directly from the company, according to spokesperson Lisa Wolf-Chason.

”They employ their own people, they have their own operators, and they own the land they operate off of,” Wolf-Chason said in a phone interview. “I know this is unfortunate news for Citgo, but we have been working with other fuel operators to make sure they’re prepared for the storm and can help supply the state with fuel.”

State officials opened a hotline to receive complaints from people who believe they bought the bad fuel. People can call 1-800-435-7352 or make a complaint at fdacs.gov.

The state also is “coordinating with petroleum retailers, ports and all additional stakeholders to ensure that this disruption won’t be widespread and that residents can have seamless access to fuel,” the alert states.

The Florida Department of Emergency Management also has “waived size, weight, and hour restrictions to get resources into the state as quickly and efficiently as possible,” the alert states.

The gas stations that are believed to have received the contaminated fuel are:

Big Dan’s Car Wash: 39522 US Highway 19 N, Tarpon Springs (A spokesperson for this location emailed the Times on Sunday night and said none of their fuel had contamination and that they expected to be cleared by the state by end of day Monday).

7-Eleven: 3437 US Highway 19, Holiday

7-Eleven: 13411 Fish Hawk Blvd., Lithia

7-Eleven: 4325 Lee Blvd., Lehigh Acres

7-Eleven: 12750 South Cleveland Ave., Fort Myers

7-Eleven: 290 Lakeland Park Road, Lakeland

7-Eleven: 720 Chiquita Blvd., North Cape Coral

7-Eleven: 2604 Skyline Blvd., Cape Coral

7-Eleven: 940 S Broad St., Brooksville

7-Eleven: 1626 Meadow Road, Lehigh Acres

7-Eleven: 2401 James Redman Parkway, Plant City

7-Eleven: 601 Pine Island Road SW, Cape Coral

7-Eleven: 6050 Dean Dairy Road, Zephyrhills

7-Eleven: 714 Burnt Store Road, Cape Coral

BJ’s Wholesale: 1929 Pine Island Road NE, Cape Coral

BJ’s Wholesale: 9372 Ben C Pratt Six Mile Cypress Pkwy., Fort Myers

BJ’s Wholesale: 13585 NE 86th Path, Lady Lakes

Handy Foods Store #86: 21321 Palm Beach Blvd., Alva

Handy Foods Store #87: 3205 Lee Blvd., Lehigh Acres

Superday CITGO: 1595 S McCall Road, Port Charlotte

Bolton One LLC: 15434 US Highway 19, Hudson

JHW #310 DBA Avenue CITGO: 11867 N Williams St., Dunellon

AL Prime Daytona Beach: 1898 S Clyde Morris Blvd., Daytona Beach

Quick & Easy Stop: 4529 Bee Ridge Road, Sarasota

Palmers Easy Stop: 903 Cattleman Road, Sarasota

Faulkenburg CITGO: 5320 Faulkenburg Road, Tampa

Choice Food & Gas: 310 N Central Ave., Umatilla

2K Express 5: 6202 N 40th St., Tampa

Perfection Station 5: 9931 N Florida Ave., Tampa

This message has been edited. Last edited by: frayedends,

I would think so.

I got gas in my diesel engine at a Quik Check one year. We pulled into our driveway and it started to run funny and shut it off immediately.
Luckily we had a receipt to prove the error. Quick Check had to pay for everything.
From towing to everything that gas would touch was replaced.
Always get receipts.

Diesel in a gasoline engine can cause severe engine knock which will lead to destruction of the pistons. On a modern engine computer controlled engine timing using knock sensors the engine will code out quickly and possibly result in no damage. On an older engine with timing fixed timing curves and no knock sensors you can destroy an engine in about 500 feet if you ignore the engine knock.

Yikes. This really sucks for lots of people.

As Scooter mentioned, it can definitely damage an engine, subject to a number of variables.
Aside from the items he mentioned, the percentage of diesel both from the pump and due to how much gas was in the tank when the fuel was added could make a difference.
Either way, they will have a big insurance claim.

Our local Sam's Club gas station had this issue back in April. A Friday fuel delivery deposited diesel in the gas holding tank, and it wasn't recognized and shut down until Monday. They're one of the busiest gas stations in the area, and weekends are especially busy, so I'm sure they faced a pretty massive clusterfuck of insurance claims from the thousands of drivers who filled up over those 3-4 days.

Diesel doesn't ignite as easily as gasoline does, so chances are the cars will just stall and need their fuel systems flushed.

Gasoline in a diesel engine can seriously damage the engine.

That's why diesel pumps are made smaller. You can accidentally put diesel in a gasoline engine, but the gasoline pumps are too big to fit in the diesel fuel port on most consumer vehicles.

Glad that didn't make it here, just filled up 3 cans and the generator in prep for the Hurricane.

Dang that's a lot of stations with the potential to have the bad fuel. Poor writing, in one sentence Citgo is refusing to provide data, then another, bam here's your list... Imagine it took them a bit to determine what trucks got the fuel, their routes and make up the list.

We had a guy we rode with on motorcycles he was a nice person, filled up his HD with Diesel, he was forever nicknamed Diesel, didn't run his bike though so it was saved, nothing in the fuel line just the tank an easy fix.

Lot of vehicles and lawn equipment may need replaced

I thought that the gas pump necks were smaller so the Diesel pumps won't fit into them.

quote:

Originally posted by bobtheelf:
Diesel doesn't ignite as easily as gasoline does, so chances are the cars will just stall and need their fuel systems flushed.

Gasoline in a diesel engine can seriously damage the engine.

That's why diesel pumps are made smaller. You can accidentally put diesel in a gasoline engine, but the gasoline pumps are too big to fit in the diesel fuel port on most consumer vehicles.

Uh, yeah. I loaned my F250 diesel to a friend, and she wasn't paying attention when she went to refill it. The dumbshit kid manning the pump (this was in Oregon) filled one tank with gasoline. The bigger nozzle didn't stop him. Maybe it was a really old pump with an old nozzle, I don't know. I don't know how far she drove it that way before it starting stalling. I had to have it towed to the dealer.

I was lucky. They drained it, flushed it and replaced the filter and it started up and ran fine. The guy said it had damaged the injectors some but not enough to require replacing them (it was out of warranty at the time, so no he wasn't just trying to save warranty repair costs). He said it might wind up shortening the life of the injectors some. The whole thing only cost me a few hundred dollars (plus the tow). If the injectors had had to be replaced it would have been in the thousands.

It will possibly damage catalytic converters.

Early in my career, I had engineering responsibilities for a few distribution terminals where tankers are filled up to deliver to gas stations.

Typically diesel mistakenly put in gasoline occurs due to 1 of 2 reasons:
(1) {more common} pipeline, barge, or tanker receipt is scheduled for the distribution terminal. Unfortunately, operator lined up the tank wrong and received diesel in a gasoline tank. The proper way to line up for receipt from a pipeline, barge, or tanker is to be receiving into one tank and using a different tank to deliver to the loading rack. Typically, the high level alarm will go off, the receipt will be stopped, the diesel in gasoline problem discovered, and the contaminated tank ends up having its contents shipped back to the refinery. The problem arises when the separate receipt tank and separate loading rack tank not done for various reasons (e.g. small distribution terminal doesn't have 2 diesel tanks) and the receipt is occurring simultaneously with the delivery to the loading rack. Diesel is heavier than gasoline so will settle to the bottom and the tank nozzle going to the loading rack is roughly waist high so it doesn't take long for diesel to be going to the gasoline arms in the loading rack.
(2) {rarer} maintenance occurs at the manifold between the tanks and the loading rack so everything locked out / tagged out (LOTO). After maintenance is complete, LOTO is removed but the operator opens the wrong valve to line up to the loading rack.

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:

I thought that the gas pump necks were smaller do the Diesel pumps won't fit into them.

Quite a few years ago, there were several instances of Jet-A (similar to diesel) fuel being pumped into piston-powered airplanes with predictably disastrous results. Engine failure immediately after take-off is A Very Bad Thing.

I don't remember wether it was a mandatory AD (Airworthiness Directive), or an AC (Advisory Circular), but my piston powered V-Tail was fitted with restrictors so that jet fuel nozzles would not fit in the tank.

Of course, this did not solve the potential problem of the 100 octane AvGas truck being loaded with jet fuel, so that exposure was still there.

Many FBO's provided "red carpet" service and offered to fuel the airplane while it was parked. I always refused that and insisted on being present while the airplane was being re-fueled. Right at the start, I would have the fuel truck driver put a bit into a sample cup. I would sniff it (jet fuel and gasoline have very different odors) and rub a bit between my fingertips -- jet fuel feels more "slippery." Only after I had verified this way, would I permit any fuel to go into my tanks. I always went to the self-service pumps if they were available, but some airports only had fuel trucks, no self-service.

quote:

Quite a few years ago, there were several instances of Jet-A (similar to diesel) fuel being pumped into piston-powered airplanes with predictably disastrous results. Engine failure immediately after take-off is A Very Bad Thing.

We had a DC-3 crash into one of our subdivisions being developed in 1984 under those exact circumstances. The pilot was able to keep it between the occupied homes and occupied highway without any injuries to those on the ground.

I was 8 years old at the time, and the construction office would have been behind the tail section, but within the taped off area. I had walked out to an equipment trailer and was standing on it to take photos when I was approached by one of the crash investigators. He asked if I wanted some better angles, and told me I could walk with him to go see it up close.

quote:

Originally posted by Scooter123:
Diesel in a gasoline engine can cause severe engine knock which will lead to destruction of the pistons. On a modern engine computer controlled engine timing using knock sensors the engine will code out quickly and possibly result in no damage. On an older engine with timing fixed timing curves and no knock sensors you can destroy an engine in about 500 feet if you ignore the engine knock.

No, it is the other way around. Gas pre-igniting in a diesel engine is a problem.

Not trying to be obtuse, but how do you know the contaminant is diesel fuel? I have yet to read what the contaminant is. My son and I were talking about this at 4:15am on the way to swim practice. He asked the same question and I said it depended on what the contaminant was. He also wondered if you could get a refund if you had your receipt.

I’m really glad I didn’t fill up in Cape Coral last night. I could have stopped at a number of those 7-11s.

quote:

Originally posted by c1steve:

quote:

Originally posted by Scooter123:
Diesel in a gasoline engine can cause severe engine knock which will lead to destruction of the pistons. On a modern engine computer controlled engine timing using knock sensors the engine will code out quickly and possibly result in no damage. On an older engine with timing fixed timing curves and no knock sensors you can destroy an engine in about 500 feet if you ignore the engine knock.

No, it is the other way around. Gas pre-igniting in a diesel engine is a problem.

Scooter was not wrong. Diesel has an extremely low octane rating.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
Not trying to be obtuse, but how do you know the contaminant is diesel fuel?

The sub-heading of the story title from the link says:

"The gas, which was contaminated with diesel fuel, could harm engines or make them inoperable just as Floridians seek gas for evacuations or generators."

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
Not trying to be obtuse, but how do you know the contaminant is diesel fuel? I have yet to read what the contaminant is. My son and I were talking about this at 4:15am on the way to swim practice. He asked the same question and I said it depended on what the contaminant was. He also wondered if you could get a refund if you had your receipt.

I’m really glad I didn’t fill up in Cape Coral last night. I could have stopped at a number of those 7-11s.

Read Item #1 in my post above. Could've loaded the tankers for the 28 gas stations before realizing the problem.

In that case:

Distribution terminal has to determine when diesel receipt began, look at bills of lading to determine which tankers were loaded with diesel contaminated gasoline, call the trucking companies.

Trucking companies have to track down which trucks received the contaminated gasoline, which gas stations they delivered to, and then call the gas stations.

The gas stations have to shutdown their gasoline pumps

---

Ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity

DISCLAIMER: These are the author's own personal views and do not represent the views of the author's employer.

quote:

Diesel has an extremely low octane rating.

You are both forgetting that diesel ignites poorly with spark ignition. I also believe it may not get through the injectors as they operate at much lower pressure than a diesel injection pump. IME the engine doesn't run long enough to be damaged.

I have worked on gas cars that had diesel put in them by mistake. I siphon the tank as much as possible, remove it if necessary (or feasible, some tanks are difficult), fill the it with gas, disconnect the fuel line at the engine, crank the engine to purge the fuel pump and line, then reconnect it and fire up the engine. It is difficult to start and runs poorly for a minute or so until the rest of the fuel line and injectors are purged. Then I advise the owner that everything looks OK at this time but the fuel pump and injectors may have suffered long term damage. The cars ran fine when they left.

That’s an explanation, not a statement of fact.

The Florida Department of Agriculture has not said what was contaminated with what. In fact, the say fuel, without specifying gasoline or diesel. If true, this blurb from a WaPo article explains why:

“The contamination happened after workers at Citgo, which supplies fuel to the greater Tampa area, accidentally switched diesel and gasoline in a shipment to stations on Saturday.“ Link

Sounds like gasoline was contaminated with diesel and diesel was contaminated with gasoline.