It may be different in Australia, but here in the states, I believe that the police are part of the criminal justice system, which to me definitely means they’re “the government”-much as the military is.

I suppose that Australia could have privately contracted police forces, and therefore they would not be government employees…but even then, they would be acting as officers of the state, and thus they would be “the government.”

So…I contend that it is the government shooting its citizens in the back…not “people in the government.” To me, you’re trying to absolve the government…but maybe I misunderstood what you’re saying in the text I bolded. (Wouldn’t be the first time I misinterpreted a post).

All is IMNSHO!

quote:

I contend that it is the government shooting its citizens in the back…not “people in the government.

To me the "government" is no different than a "coporation". It exists only as a piece of paper.

What makes government and corporations do anything, because paper can't do anything, is the people involved. So yes, it's "the government" but that is nothing without the action of "the people".

That, and you can't shove a less than leathal device sideways up the government's ass. Paper doesn't have an ass. People on the other hand.....

Sorry if what I wrote was confusing. I'm not trying to absolve government. But like a1abdj says, government and corporations are abstractions and legal entities. They are not people. Politicians may make up what we think of as government. But the people shooting at civilians here, while perhaps employed by the government, can't hide behind the 'government' here. They are people. They are your neighbors. Your neighbors are shooting at you for standing up for freedom and your rights.

These hideous actions shouldn't be just abstracted as actions of government. They are the actions of individual people, your neighbors, who have the ability to just say "no, I will not shoot at these civilians; it's not right." These are the actions of, as bigdeal put it, government thugs, not an abstraction we call government. Specific people.

The government should be held to account. But explicitly, so should these 'cops' - "just following orders" should not excuse their hideous actions. These "cops" should be held accountable for shooting at unarmed civilians who simply demand the free exercise of their rights.

^^^Right once again, Konata...100%!

Australia update: Melbourne, Victoria.

First up - thanks to all who commented on the Shrine of Remembrance and the protestors there.
There's always two sides, and I hadn't fully appreciated that.

From Day 3:
Golf balls and batteries projectiles thrown.
200 arrests at the Shrine. $5000 AU fines for breaching public health orders; some charged with assault on police.
A police task force has been established to pour over hundreds of hours of footage from Melbourne’s vast network of CCTV cameras, as well as officers’ body cams, to identify individuals and hunt them down.
Investigations into who attacked vaccine hub clinic workers in Melbourne during a day of chaos and mayhem.

Day 4:
health workers and teachers join the rally.

Extract from a news.com.au article:
********
" ... high-visibility workwear donned by protesters, including non-tradies, was becoming “vilified” and that a more “sophisticated” look is now needed.

“Everyone start turning up in suits, shirts/ties, dress shoes. Look smart, look sophisticated,” one said.

“So they can see how many different industries are standing up,” another added.
********

The CBD no-fly zone has been lifted, so MSM helicopter news crews will be up and recording. No live broadcast, as the concern is that protestors will see where the police are and the tactics.


(Image sources news.com.au)

A heavy police presence is growing at anticipated flashpoints across the city, including the area surrounding the construction union where the first violent demonstration took place on Monday. Zero tolerance.

</chris>
ps - Para, if this is too much info ...?

Watching the pressure cooker that is Australia finally blow is going to be a sight to see.

Remember South Africa a few months back? It may end up looking like that.

quote:

A police task force has been established...to identify individuals and hunt them down.

Is that really the way they're framing it Down Under?

Me thinks they've already gone too far, but what do I know. Of course they may go well beyond that too. I'm afraid to think how REALLY Ugly things will get once the imbiciles in the .gov start saying, 'well we've gone this far, we can't turn back now'!

Has Biden’s mandate actually been made official? I couldn’t find it online.

He wants to turn service members into felons, putting them in the same category as rapists, murderers and deserters. At this time in our history I would advise our young people to not enlist in the military, and I have never before felt this way.

Biden Pushing For Dishonourable Discharges, Court Martials For Troops Who Refuse Vaccines

https://www.zerohedge.com/poli...-who-refuse-vaccines

The Biden administration is pushing for dishonourable discharges and even court martialing for troops who disobey orders to get COVID vaccines.

GOP Representative Mark Green of Tennessee proposed an amendment this week to the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) that would prohibit “any discharge but honorable” for troops who refuse vaccines.

The White House responded with a statement noting “The Administration strongly opposes section 716,” reasoning that it would “detract from readiness and limit a commander’s options for enforcing good order and discipline when a Service member fails to obey a lawful order to receive a vaccination.”

The statement added “To enable a uniformed force to fight with discipline, commanders must have the ability to give orders and take appropriate disciplinary measures.”

Responding to the statement, Rep. Green said “I am appalled that the Biden Administration is trying to remove my amendment to the National Defense Authorization Act that prevents anything but an honorable discharge for service members who refuse to get the COVID-19 vaccine.”

Green added “This was a bipartisan amendment — every Democrat on the House Armed Services Committee agreed to it.”

“No American who raises their hand to serve our Nation should be punished for making a highly personal medical decision,” Green previously urged.

Another section of the bill, 720, proposes that troops who have previously had COVID-19 should be exempted from a vaccine mandate. The Biden administration also opposes it, claiming it creates “a new and overly broad exemption from the vaccination requirement for previous infection that would undermine the effectiveness of the requirement.”

The House is expected to vote on the NDAA early Thursday morning.

As we have previously noted, there has been significant resistance to vaccine mandates among military service members.

Tucker Carlson revealed Monday that a bizarre presentation was given to troops sardonically ridiculing vaccine mandates with links to satanism, as the military pushes mandates, even for elite navy SEALS who have had the virus and have natural immunity.

Video at link

The AMA Is Teaching Doctors Psychological Manipulation Tactics to Coerce the Unvaccinated
by Dr. Joseph Mercola
https://noqreport.com/2021/09/...ce-the-unvaccinated/

quote:

Originally posted by Jimineer:
Has Biden’s mandate actually been made official? I couldn’t find it online.

Have I missed something? What mandate?

quote:

The White House responded with a statement noting “The Administration strongly opposes section 716,” reasoning that it would “detract from readiness and limit a commander’s options for enforcing good order and discipline when a Service member fails to obey a lawful order to receive a vaccination.”

<rhetorical> Has this presidential mandate been determined to translate into a lawful order for military members? If so, when and by which judicial entity did this occur? <rhetorical>

quote:

Originally posted by cjevans:
Para, if this is too much info ...?

You have greater access to news about the situation than we here in the US, and you know far better than we, the attitudes of the Australian people. Without wishing to place upon you an undue burden, we rely upon you and other Australian forum members to bring us news from your country. Feel free to post whatever you deem relevant.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:

quote:

Originally posted by Jimineer:
Has Biden’s mandate actually been made official? I couldn’t find it online.

Have I missed something? What mandate?

September 9, 2021, in a sweeping executive order, president Joe Biden mandated all U.S. companies with 100 or more employees to require COVID vaccination or weekly testing, or face federal fines of up to $14,000 per violation. Biden also ordered businesses to give time off to employees to receive the injections.

Biden is also requiring all federal employees and federal contractors to get the shots. For unspecified reasons, postal workers and members of Congress and their staff are exempt from the vaccine mandate. Biden did not make any exceptions for persons who have already had COVID and recovered, and therefore have antibodies to the virus.

https://www.lewrockwell.com/20...ndate-means-for-you/


Biden Pushing For Dishonourable Discharges, Court Martials For Troops Who Refuse Vaccines

White House claims anything but dishonorable discharge for refusing vaccines would “detract from readiness and limit a commander’s options for enforcing good order and discipline.”

https://summit.news/2021/09/23...who-refuse-vaccines/

^^^
As far as government employees, executive orders can only be applied to the executive branch. Of course, this clearly highlights the hypocrisy of the leftist trash running the country into the ground and of the entire government at large that anyone DARE to abstain from getting the miracle elixir, but here we are. I’ll be leaving federal service 5 months early as a direct result, barring a last minute change of the mandate. My dearest wish is that Biden suffers a debilitating stroke that leaves his “doctor” wife to feed him oatmeal for the remainder of both their days as a reward for the attack on freedom we see now.

quote:

Biden Pushing For Dishonourable Discharges, Court Martials For Troops Who Refuse Vaccines

Nothing these traitors try surprises me, but is refusing a vaccine grounds for a dishonorable discharge? It’s my understanding that you would have to have committed a serious crime such as rape, murder, etc. For the military folks, is insubordination, ie.- failing to follow the direct order to get the vaccine grounds for a true dishonorable discharge?

I remember right before Desert Storm we had to get juiced up for whatever bio attack we might have come up against.
Some didn't want to and you pretty much had no choice in the matter.
Get the shots or else.

I don't recall anyone refusing to get them so don't know what happened to those who did.

Yes they can. However, the person can get it changed to “Other than Honorable” which isn’t as bad.

I think before it’s over, the military will get it right. I think as much as people want to claim how “woke” the military is right now, I think they’ll continue to get it right. I think they are doing the same thing that all federal agencies are doing right now. Trying to navigate the minefield of having this level of incompetence in charge.

I’m seeing the military through the eyes of a PFC, and I think they’ll eventually get it right.

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:

quote:

Biden Pushing For Dishonourable Discharges, Court Martials For Troops Who Refuse Vaccines

Nothing these traitors try surprises me, but is refusing a vaccine grounds for a dishonorable discharge? It’s my understanding that you would have to have committed a serious crime such as rape, murder, etc. For the military folks, is insubordination, ie.- failing to follow the direct order to get the vaccine grounds for a true dishonorable discharge?

Maybe a Big Chicken Dinner aka Bad Conduct Discharge for not obeying orders. It definitely shouldn't be a Dishonorable Discharge (which are usually felony charges, I have seen troops and officers sentenced for a year and a day to make it a felony for the Dishonorable Discharge) , but who knows with the current state of Generals as they are the ones that approve or request charges and findings for and from Court Martial.

quote:

Yes they can. However, the person can get it changed to “Other than Honorable” which isn’t as bad.

It might not be as bad but it certainly isn't good. If they were to go that route than a general discharge would make more sense.

But they're not trying to make sense, they are picking and choosing ways to coerce people into getting the jab.

If they offered a GD military readiness would fall below the minimum and general officers would get an ass-chewing and they don't want to affect their pensions.