quote:

Originally posted by Georgeair:
To be clear once again, I am not a proponent of and would be opposed to another “shutting down“ of the economy. My concern is with healthcare driving so much of the visible part of this that without some real effort by everyone in the country to curtail the hospitalizations (not just the positive test count) we’re going to back the policymakers into an untenable position where they start leaning back on that as a partial or total solution.

Please allow me to be clear from the get-go, that I appreciate your POV and do not wish to get into a pissing contest, Georgeair.

But here is where I must interject once again and ask WHY...WHY...weren't ANY of the proposed measures by these "policymakers" even discussed in whispered conversations over a beer when there were over 166,000 cases of H1N1 PER DAY sweeping through this country in '09/'10? Did someone in the healthcare profession just decide, "Meh...it's no big deal. This infection rate is nothing."? With that many cases per day, did anyone NOT think there was a concern of the possible drain on hospitals and the healthcare industry as a whole? COVID is nowhere NEAR those numbers.

This is why I get torqued out over this. The government and media didn't do a damned thing when H1N1 was sweeping through this country...didn't say a word. Would you not agree that H1N1 was way more infectious than what COVID is? Death rates are irrelevant until we have accurate numbers, as I've pointed out previously due to how and what is being counted as a COVID death.

If ANYONE was primed to get H1N1 in '09/'10, it would have been me (and other aviators), who were cramped into a pressurized metal tube hauling thousands of people over thousands of miles. But I went to work, day after day, with no care in the world, not missing a beat just like MILLIONS of my fellow citizens. So why the concern now? Is it because the government and useless media has instilled panic in everyone?

I'm not discounting there's an issue. What has given me a screeching case of the red ass is the MASSIVE overreach by the media to artificially create this panic, which has in turn DESTROYED our economy (I'm sure to lose my job for an undetermined amount of time...thanks, media assholes), all in the name of "Orange Man Bad".

Be well...

quote:

If ANYONE was primed to get H1N1 in '09/'10, it would have been me (and other aviators), who were cramped into a pressurized metal tube hauling thousands of people over thousands of miles. But I went to work, day after day, with no care in the world, not missing a beat just like MILLIONS of my fellow citizens. So why the concern now? Because the government and useless media has instilled panic in everyone?

I had a daughter in college that got it in 2009. They shut the whole college down for a week. She still remembers it as the worst sickness she had. We had more of a handle medically on that illness that seemed to affect younger rather than older people.

quote:

Originally posted by erj_pilot:
Be well...

On much we agree and the current situation is certainly getting more attention and it’s being overhyped by the media which is only making things worse.

I’m not sure if the healthcare and admin response or cries of caution were absent during H1N1 due to either ignorance or pure genius/luck. I am sure we are stuck in the shitstorm as designed and influenced by current factors and we know how hard to come by is paper for THAT!

Be well, indeed erj.

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:...It is impossible to measure the lost lives due to missed colonoscopies, noncompliance with meds. etc.

And the cumulative effect on the quality of health and life, going forward, for people who otherwise would have had ongoing care, tests, and whatnot.

This sort of fallout has been my concern.complaint from the very beginning of all of this.

The damage that has and will come from all this insanity, will far surpass the ability to quantify it.


My position is unmoved.

quote:

Originally posted by zipriderson:
Re-read what I wrote.

Oh, I read what you wrote but just gave you the simplest course of action, which might help in your case.

Either that or just let him go. 1 or 0.

You pick. Because if he's coming into contact with kids who are in contact with random people you don't know, your 'caution' is pretty much useless and will lead you to needless worry.

quote:

Originally posted by Keystoner:
I don't understand your compulsion to explain to everyone here the levels of precaution you've decided to take for yourself.

Me neither.

LOL, more stupidity.
They moved the venue from a nice auditorium to outdoors on the football field... in the blazing sun. What possible good was that? The crowd still sat shoulder to shoulder in the seats.

So we arrive and they had laid out the seats for the Graduates on a 6x6 foot grid... not surprised... got to show off how woke they are by social distancing.

But then... THEN... they had over 300 kids stand close, nose to tail in line, for about 10 minutes while waiting to march onto the field.

quote:

I don't understand your compulsion to explain to everyone here the levels of precaution you've decided to take for yourself.

My point is simply that I believe one can have a plan to mitigate risk without panicking. Quite the opposite, one can take a calculated approach with some level of risk and some level of caution.

It's not so black and white that if you limit your exposure to others, or wear a mask, or do some combination of varying degrees of these things you are 'panicked'.

quote:

Originally posted by MikeGLI:
This is silly, I'll be the first to admit, but I also sympathies with the businesses that are attempting to stay in business. If that means I need to cover my face, I'll do it. I still reserve the right to not cover my face and eat dinner at home.

Like I noted, when King Illiterate decreed this order he admitted to the media in attendance that the county had no means to monitor or enforce the order. And the reality that pissed me off is that Tijuana Flats was already operating under social distancing guidelines, and King Nitwit's order decreed 'outdoor' wearing of a mask in places where social distancing was not possible. Obviously, like most businesses today, Tijuana Flats had already jumped through hoops to insure social distancing, so the move to masks inside the restaurant is simply stupid (much like everything that comes out of King Dumbass' pie hole. This is what the folks in Central Florida get when they elect a retard to manage their county.

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
[QUOTE]If

I had a daughter in college that got it in 2009. They shut the whole college down for a week. She still remembers it as the worst sickness she had. We had more of a handle medically on that illness that seemed to affect younger rather than older people.

^^^^

My BIL got it too. He was on a ventilator for nearly three months. He was a very strong and healthy individual. He also had an MBA and owned his own business. He lost the business and pushes a broom in a warehouse now as he can't do more. He also can't drive anymore because of permanent complications. He was in his late 40s or early 50s when he got H1N1.

This is how this crap gets a foothold.

Buy American...

Media claims there is a big spike in Texas cases and that Austin hospitals will be overwhelmed. Do we have any Austin, Texas residents that can confirm this with any pictures or videos of how the hospitals looks like ??? God Bless

Can't find a link to clip but on news last night while they were discussing challenges in TX, Houston in particular, and the apparent/supposed shortage of available beds saw two incongruent messages yet again.

Governor (seemingly reasonable) and mayor (overly dramatic and no history of common sense) stating with conviction that they are at or near capacity in many medical centers. Heads of at least two major medical centers emphasizing that they routinely run at or near capacity as a normal means of business and have ability to manage/shift/flex around that and nothing to worry about here.

I think we've covered the difficulty in sussing out the reality in the first group of policy makers, nothing really to expand on there.

The second group (hospitals) is an interesting dichotomy. For those of us that want to believe that it's overblown panic (in that area at least) we would gravitate towards taking them at their words. However many of us in that group are also the ones that have been skeptical of the honesty and sincerity in that hospital world as it relates to the COVID-19 money-grab. I don't think we can simultaneously trust and not believe them.

So why would they say this if not accurate? Yet again, it's likely all about the money. A state department of health limiting elective procedures is what we did with a shotgun approach in almost every state earlier and it had a HUGE impact on the revenue of all these facilities. I've felt the last few weeks that we just don't have the appetite to turn the hospitals upside down and shake them empty again with the impact that has on both patients and facilities. Done on a broad basis as before it could crush some of the smaller/rural hospitals that were in bad shape in February, already took it in the shorts in April/May and may not be able to sustain an empty facility yet again. Done on a local basis for these major areas the affect is the same, just bigger targets selectively fired upon with more precision.

The concern with self-serving statements like the hospital admins in Houston is their normal method to flex capacity probably depend heavily on it being limited in intensity and duration and relies heavily on shifting some care to other nearby centers or expanding room capacity of temp nature. If the others in area are in the same boat that starts to be a challenge, and propping up new rooms for ICUs takes time. The good news, at least in MS and some other states, is that while hospitalizations are increasing the number of patients in ICU and on vents seems stable or going down. That may indicate we're getting better at treating patients so that's good news.

My point? As many have suggested this needs to be managed on a micro rather than macro basis. To do that you have to be able to trust all involved to take appropriate actions to manage the capacity as well as the need. IOW, healthcare system and the population. So far it seems we've been all over the map on both fronts whipsawing from one extreme to another.

Is it Friday yet?

I saw the same report last night. I wouldn't expect a hospital administrator to get on national TV and say anything other than we are prepared and can handle what comes our way. I did find it interesting the show gave the administrators about 2 seconds of airtime, but 20 something bar party guy got his 30 seconds of fame because he was out whooping it up without a mask, got the Vid, now he's a true believer because it affects everyone. He looked remarkably healthy.

quote:

Originally posted by Georgeair:
My point? As many have suggested this needs to be managed on a micro rather than macro basis. To do that you have to be able to trust all involved to take appropriate actions to manage the capacity as well as the need. IOW, healthcare system and the population. So far it seems we've been all over the map on both fronts whipsawing from one extreme to another.

Is it Friday yet?

Trusting all involved would be much easier if government had not managed to screw up the incentives so badly. Employees are not encouraged to go back to work with a $15 “bonus” on top of regular welfare until the end of July. Hospitals are encouraged to label anything that they can get away with so labeling COVID-19 both by directive on death certificates and by dollars on treatment. They are encouraged to put people on vents (which some articles seemed to indicate might *not* be the best treatment) by dollars. We can hope that folks will still do the right thing (and some indications of less folks going on vents even as cases rise might indicate it is happening), but it would be easier to trust that would happen if the incentives were aligned better.

I suspect that we’ll get through this in spite of the best efforts of the media and some in government, but it sure would be nicer if everyone were pulling for America.

This article may not be completely correct, but I think it is more correct than not

https://www.powerlineblog.com/...are-there-really.php

Currently the Centers for Disease Control says there have been 121,809 COVID-19 deaths in the U.S. Most people, seeing that figure or reading newspaper headlines about Wuhan virus deaths, assume that means that in 121,809 cases, COVID-19 has been the cause of death. But that isn’t true at all.

This Issues & Insights editorial does a good job of bringing together some of the relevant data. But let’s start with something they didn’t mention: this acknowledgement by the Director of the Illinois Department of Public Health:

I just want to be clear in terms of the definition of people dying of COVID. So, the case definition is very simplistic. It means that at the time of death it was a COVID-positive diagnosis. So that means if you were in hospice and had already been given, you know, a few weeks to live and then you were also found to have COVID, that would be counted as a COVID death. It means that if, technically, even if you died of a clear alternate cause but you had COVID at the same time it’s still listed as a COVID death. So, everyone that’s listed as a COVID death doesn’t mean that that was the cause of the death, but they had COVID at the time of death.

That certainly is clarifying. We also know that some doctors have complained about being pressured to list COVID-19 as a cause of death, perhaps because the CARES Act provides a 20% Medicare bonus for COVID patients. And most recorded COVID-19 fatalities are elderly people with one or more co-morbidities.

[T]he deaths now attributed to COVID-19 might be grossly exaggerated. The evidence is substantial, and has been obvious for weeks. …

Dr. Deborah Birx, the respected physician who heads the Trump administration’s coronavirus team, reportedly argued back in May at a closed Centers for Disease Control meeting that the agency’s death estimates were 25% too high, according to a Washington Post report.

Anecdotal evidence at the state level suggests this is true. In fact, estimates may be off by more than 25%.

A review of Minnesota deaths through late May, for instance, found that of 741 registered COVID-19 deaths, fewer than 41% listed it as a “primary cause.” …

How could this happen?

In most U.S. jurisdictions, unlike many other countries, if someone dies with COVID-19, that becomes the cause of death for official purposes. That’s true even if it didn’t technically “cause” the person’s death.
***
In California, San Diego County Supervisor Jim Desmond investigated 194 COVID-19 deaths through mid-May and found that only six could be clearly claimed as caused by COVID-19. “We’ve unfortunately had six pure, solely coronavirus deaths — six out of 3.3 million people,” said Desmond.

Washington state reported that at least five of its then 828 COVID-19 deaths were actually due to gunshot wounds. Pennsylvania had to remove “hundreds of deaths” from its tally for misreporting the actual causes.

Same thing in Colorado, where a man found dead in a park with a 0.55% alcohol blood level was declared a COVID-19 victim.

The CDC has a huge institutional interest in maximizing the COVID problem, but it admits that the fatality numbers are misleading:

The Centers for Disease Control admits as much in its June 24 update of the data:

“For 7% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned.”

You read that right: not 97%, 7%.

“For deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVID-19, on average, there were 2.5 additional conditions or causes per death.”

Why is this important? Because in all likelihood, the actual Wuhan fatality rate is not much different from a relatively virulent seasonal flu. Every year, the seasonal flu bug kills tens of thousands of Americans. Just two years ago, the CDC says it killed 62,000–and that was without a Medicare spiff or other pressures to build up the numbers. The reality is, I think, that in response to the COVID-19 epidemic, we devastated our economy–which means that we devastated tens or hundreds of millions of lives–needlessly.

quote:

Originally posted by Keystoner:

quote:

Originally posted by zipriderson:

quote:

Fourteen days quarantine for every potential exposure?

To quote myself - "There is a balance between practical and cautious"

What I certainly am not going to do is pretend there is no risk. It seems that is what many here are advocating. Just go about life as if there is no concern, and let the chips fall where they may.

I don't understand your compulsion to explain to everyone here the levels of precaution you've decided to take for yourself.

it's hard to understand people who wear masks.

^^^^^

The whole mask thing reminds me of Kramer's AIDS Ribbon...

I'm so done w/ this covid shit.

I empathize with those that have been directly affected. Or have close associations with people that have been affected. There is a serious aspect to this.

However, from my perspective, I would NOT be surprised if I were directly involved in an auto incident because some idiot was paying more attention to his phone rather than driving.

I would be very surprised if I were to test positive for covid. I don't think I could catch it if I wanted to (I don't). I'd even be surprised is someone I knew directly catches it. I would be doubly surprised if it was any worse than catching the flu in any given year. I've caught the flu many times in the past. It's even lead to mild bronchitis. severe bronchitis and even pneumonia. I was even hospitalized once. But my impression is that most frequently the symptoms are mild to <no worse than average flu>.

I understand that some people are dying. But I've found nothing to warrant the extreme measures we're taking as society. Honestly, if it wasn't for SF, I may not even be aware of covid except for the idiot measures being forced upon us (masks, biz closures, etc).

Today is one of the last straws. I can't even get my phone battery replaced - a 5 min activity w/out having an appointment 2 weeks in advance - a result of social distancing.

No, I'm not comparing my phone issues with the deaths of others. I'm saying this is an idiotic situation being imposed on the masses by the idiotic few. And I'm sick of it.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
I'd even be surprised is someone I knew directly catches it.

You do

quote:

I would be doubly surprised if it was any worse than catching the flu in any given year.

It is much worst...I was half a step away from going into ICU