quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
They're juicing the numbers, and that is all there is to it.

Jensen then told Ingraham that under the CDC guidelines, a patient who died after being hit by a bus and tested positive for coronavirus would be listed as having presumed to have died from the virus regardless of whatever damage was caused by the bus.

and...

quote:

"Right now Medicare has determined that if you have a COVID-19 admission to the hospital you’ll get paid $13,000. If that COVID-19 patient goes on a ventilator, you get $39,000; three times as much. Nobody can tell me, after 35 years in the world of medicine, that sometimes those kinds of things [have] impact on what we do."

Read it again. They'll put you on a Goddamned ventilator- a condition which you may not actually require and from which you may very well not recover- just to line their Goddamned pockets.

Do you know what it means to be put on a ventilator? I mean what the patient may experience? Trust me- trust me- going on a ventilator is about the last thing you want. It's the end of the line, and docs and hospital administrators will put you through that torture just for filthy fucking money.

Half of patients with this virus, who get put on ventilators, die. Don't tell me it's more complicated than that; I know it's more complicated than that, and anyone who is being honest knows that I am speaking the truth in this post.

.

I read the CDC Guidance for Certifying Deaths Due to Coronavirus Disease It says nothing like what that doctor was claiming.

quote:

Originally posted by bendable:
Does freezing stuff kill the stuff?

Likely the answer is no.

In general, corona viruses (SARS-CoV-2 example) are very stable in a frozen state according to studies of other corona viruses, which have shown survival for up to two years at -20°C

The above information is from WHO. Ripley's rule

Food related considerations

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
They're juicing the numbers, and that is all there is to it.

Jensen then told Ingraham that under the CDC guidelines, a patient who died after being hit by a bus and tested positive for coronavirus would be listed as having presumed to have died from the virus regardless of whatever damage was caused by the bus.

and...

quote:

"Right now Medicare has determined that if you have a COVID-19 admission to the hospital you’ll get paid $13,000. If that COVID-19 patient goes on a ventilator, you get $39,000; three times as much. Nobody can tell me, after 35 years in the world of medicine, that sometimes those kinds of things [have] impact on what we do."

Read it again. They'll put you on a Goddamned ventilator- a condition which you may not actually require and from which you may very well not recover- just to line their Goddamned pockets.

Do you know what it means to be put on a ventilator? I mean what the patient may experience? Trust me- trust me- going on a ventilator is about the last thing you want. It's the end of the line, and docs and hospital administrators will put you through that torture just for filthy fucking money.

Half of patients with this virus, who get put on ventilators, die. Don't tell me it's more complicated than that; I know it's more complicated than that, and anyone who is being honest knows that I am speaking the truth in this post.

.

I read essentially the same thing yesterday, but I don’t have a link to share. The article said Medicare is getting billed higher amounts for COVID-19 cases.

^^^^

I cannot envisage any hospital, maintaining a loss for any COVID-19 case.

These are people who will charge you 800 dollars for a bandaid. That's no exaggeration. I've seen itemized hospital bills. These people are shameless thieves, and the Feds are gonna wave 39,000 bucks in their face if they put you on a ventilator? Gee, I wonder how that would go.

quote:

Originally posted by rat2306:
Well, I did get bayonets for my M1, AR, and Mossberg 590 this month...perhaps I'm helping a bit.

I see I’m not the only one buying pointy sticker thingies ...




https://imagizer.imageshack.co...00q90/924/8ijJMa.jpg

quote:

Originally posted by drabfour:
skydiver ded

I have seen this before and the UR MOM"S HOUSE @ 420 kills me.

Not to get on your bad side Para but "Episode of Care" or bundled payments is not new for CMS( Medicare) which also becomes the basis for private payers. The bundled payments of $13,000 to treat a Covid-19 patient and $39,000 to treat a critical (vent required) Covid-19 patient are basically caps, not incentives. These payments are all in, no itemized billing. You treat the patient until they are well regardless of actual cost. You get them well and get them out early you might make more profit. They stay past profitability then you lose. If you discharge the patient and they do come back for the same thing you have to treat them and you get nothing additional.

As you noted, this is the realm of the $800 bandaid. The cost of critical care is high based on the linked article written from 2005, as you can imagine cost have gone up since then.

Mean intensive care unit cost and length of stay were 31,574 +/- 42,570 dollars and 14.4 days +/- 15.8 for patients requiring mechanical ventilation and 12,931 +/- 20,569 dollars and 8.5 days +/- 10.5 for those not requiring mechanical ventilation.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15942342

Doctors and hospitals are not being enticed to over treat with these bundled payment, they would be more likely to do so without the cap of bundled payments.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
These are people who will charge you 800 dollars for a bandaid. That's no exaggeration. I've seen itemized hospital bills. These people are shameless thieves, and the Feds are gonna wave 39,000 bucks in their face if they put you on a ventilator? Gee, I wonder how that would go.

Would you rather they charge you $1 for the band aid and a mandatory $799 charge for a “patients who can’t pay for services fee?” If you have as a law in any society that patients must be treated with the best care there is even if they have no ability to pay then someone has to pay for those who don’t. That cost is passed along to everything the hospital charges you for, hence the $800 bandage, $150 aspirin etc. I have 2 doctors in my close family and my mother in law was a nurse who retired as a senior member of hospital administration. Trust me, hospitals are not raking in money, in fact most hospitals lose money every year and that is why many are closing. I can say from experience that 20 years ago the fire department in the city where I was a police officer could transport patients to either of 3 hospitals in the city and county where I reside. Last year it became only one hospital in the county. 1 hospital closed 18 or so years ago and the second closed last year so in a period of 20+ years 67% of the hospitals in my county closed.

I share your disdain for a great deal of what is going on, and I also hate the ridiculous bills levied by hospitals. I would recommend that you direct your anger at the government that mandates that anyone that can’t pay still gets Rolls Royce level treatment, even if Chevy level care would suffice. I am not heartless and have no problem with delivering life saving care regardless of one’s ability to pay. But if someone already on the government teet comes into the hospital with a sprain, strain, broken finger or head cold then I have no problem with denying them care for these non life threatening situations if they can’t pay for treatment. If you were to make those changes to the system then you likely wouldn’t need $799 uninsured patients fees or even $800 bandages. You also wouldn’t have incentives to over treat some people.

Have you noticed my posts lately? Does that body of words and sentences provide any sort of clue as to my current disposition? You might want to keep the fucking lectures to yourself.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
To nobody's surprise, Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer today extended Michigan's lockdown to the end of April.

I guaran-fracking-tee you this is going to start wearing thin on people--probably sooner, rather than later. And a large part of the reason is the uneven and illogical nature of the rules. I'm an above-average cooperative, law-abiding guy, but...

We've got a couple broken sprinkler heads and it's time for the spring fertilizer application. Getting past time, in fact. Called my landscaping supply company. They're open, because, get this: They supply to municipalities. But if I go over there, get stopped by a cop, he asks me where I'm going and why, I tell him and he decides that's non-essential: $1,000 misdemeanor ticket for breaking the travel ban. So it's ok for municipalities to maintain municipality lawns and gardens, but not me?

I don't think so, Tim

Considering the fact I'll go gloved and masked, follow rigorous decontamination protocols, and will practice safe distancing throughout the trip: Odds of there being any threat to me, or me being any threat to anybody else are about as close to zero as they can be.

My wife and I have, literally, thousands of dollars and God knows how many hundreds of hours into the lawn and gardens. I'm not letting that go to rot. I will be going.

What about the municipal ordinances that govern grass length? Noxious weed ordinances? You think municipalities are going to give up writing violations? Health? What about vermin and insects due to tall grass and weeds? Never fear, our Governor has declared that exterminators are allowed to operate at present.

On garden centers and their restrictions. In what part of a big box store do you go to for insecticides? Garden. Hmmm. That department is now closed. Seed, fertilizer, vegetable plants for home gardens? Out of luck. Want to buy paint or maybe put down hardwood flooring? No good, those departments are closed per her orders today.

Anybody that has time on their hands that may want to stay busy doing something worthwhile at home is basically screwed in this state for the next three weeks.

Never fear though. Michiganders have the lottery, liquor, beer, wine and pot stores open together with TV to keep us occupied. And guess what? Those generate a helluva lot of money for the state. Priorities. Keep everybody glued to the TV while drunk and high. Makes total sense to me.

And while I'm in several high risk categories starting with age I feel a hellluva lot safer going into a home improvement store to buy paint than if I went into a liquor store or a pot dispensary. Only so much walking around a neighborhood I can do.

Ventilator mortality non-COVID is around 50% and COVID related is running 80%.

Putting someone on a ventilator pays 39,000 vs a mere 13,000 for no ventilator. That says it all. You think these people give a fuck whether you live or die? You're just numbers on a spreadsheet.

I don't trust what the government is saying and I don't trust what hospitals are doing.

And another thing- I'll bet the US southern border is a quiet as a church right now. Come git some, amigos!! Come on! What are you waiting for? After all, this is fucking paradise, right? Come git some. Breeeeeeeathe in all that clean fresh air and no jobs for you.

Personally, I'm hoping for an exodus by all our illegal friends, the likes of which will put the Old Testament to shame. Maybe they won't have to wander the desert for a full 40 years, not that I give a shit either way.

Have Matzoh, will donate.

Adios, putas..

related to above post by Midwest guy

https://apnews.com/8ccd325c2be9bf454c2128dcb7bd616d

Generally speaking, 40% to 50% of patients with severe respiratory distress die while on ventilators, experts say

But 80% or more of coronavirus patients placed on the machines in New York City have died , state and city officials say.

Higher-than-normal death rates also have been reported elsewhere in the U.S., said Dr. Albert Rizzo, the American Lung Association’s chief medical officer.

Similar reports have emerged from China and the United Kingdom. One U.K. report put the figure at 66%. A very small study in Wuhan, the Chinese city where the disease first emerged, said 86% died.

Only a few weeks ago in New York City, coronavirus patients who came in quite sick were routinely placed on ventilators to keep them breathing, said Dr. Joseph Habboushe, an emergency medicine doctor who works in Manhattan hospitals.

But increasingly, physicians are trying other measures first. One is having patients lie in different positions — including on their stomachs — to allow different parts of the lung to aerate better. Another is giving patients more oxygen through nose tubes or other devices. Some doctors are experimenting with adding nitric oxide to the mix, to help improve blood flow and oxygen to the least damaged parts of the lungs.

“If we’re able to make them better without intubating them, they are more likely to have a better outcome — we think,” Habboushe said.

He said those decisions are separate from worries that there are not enough ventilators available. But that is a concern as well, Habboushe added.

There are widespread reports that coronavirus patients tend to be on ventilators much longer than other kinds of patients, said Dr. William Schaffner, an infectious diseases expert at Vanderbilt University.

Experts say that patients with bacterial pneumonia, for example, may be on a ventilator for no more than a day or two. But it’s been common for coronavirus patients to have been on a ventilator “seven days, 10 days, 15 days, and they’re passing away,” said New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo, when asked about ventilator death rates during a news briefing on Wednesday.

That’s one reason for worries that ventilators could grow in short supply. Experts worry that as cases mount, doctors will be forced to make terrible decisions about who lives and who dies because they won’t have enough machines for every patient who needs one.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Putting someone on a ventilator pays 39,000 vs a mere 13,000 for no ventilator. That says it all. You think these people give a fuck whether you live or die? You're just numbers on a spreadsheet.

I don't trust what the government is saying and I don't trust what hospitals are doing.

And another thing- I'll bet the US southern border is a quiet as a church right now. Come git some, amigos!! Come on! What are you waiting for? After all, this is fucking paradise, right? Come git some. Breeeeeeeathe in all that clean fresh air and no jobs for you.

Personally, I'm hoping for an exodus by all our illegal friends, the likes of which will put the Old Testament to shame.

I know literally 100's of hospital based doctors who make these kinds of decisions every day. I can guaranfuckingtee you they care more than you will ever clearly admit. You are wrong on this one boss. Who gets put on a vent gets decided by doctors at bedside who absolutely care if their patients live. Hospital administration is not involved in those decisions.

If we can accomplish just two things as a result of this catastrophe: Drastically and I do mean drastically reduce the number of illegal aliens in this nation, and take all necessary steps to reduce our dependency on goods from the land of lying, thieving assholes known as China- if we can accomplish these two things, then, in the long run, all of this may turn out to be worth it.

quote:

Originally posted by midwest guy:
Ventilator mortality non-COVID is around 50% and COVID related is running 80%.

I'm less than an expert.... But I've also read that the mortality is 85% on ventilators. Close enough. I would also guess that it could vary by location/hospital. Maybe some are better than others.

quote:

Originally posted by TXJIM:
I know literally 100's of hospital based doctors who make these kinds of decisions every day. I can guaranfuckingtee you they care more than you will ever clearly admit. You are wrong on this one boss. Who gets put on a vent gets decided by doctors at bedside who absolutely care if their patients live. Hospital administration is not involved in those decisions.

I don't believe it. Everything in hospitals is driven by a desire to increase profits.

And I spent more than twenty years in the medical field and know more MDs than 95% of forum members. I'm not talking out of my ass. I know a thing or two about how this shit works, and none of it is related to the Hippocratic Oath. The almighty dollar rules the day.