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When will the coronavirus arrive in the US? (Disease: COVID-19; Virus: SARS-CoV-2) Login/Join 
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Picture of maladat
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An article linked from that article and published on the same website:

https://www.statnews.com/2020/...ly-against-covid-19/

quote:
We know enough now to act decisively against Covid-19. Social distancing is a good place to start
By MARC LIPSITCH MARCH 18, 2020

In a recent and controversial First Opinion, epidemiologist and statistician John Ioannidis argues that we lack good data on many aspects of the Covid-19 epidemic, and seems to suggest that we should not take drastic actions to curtail the spread of the virus until the data are more certain.

He is absolutely right on the first point. The U.S. has done fewer tests per capita so far than almost any rich country in the world. And many critical details of the epidemiology — including the absolute number of cases, the role of children in transmission, the role of presymptomatic transmission, and the risk of dying from infection with SARS-CoV-2 — remain uncertain.

On the second point, I would say that his article did what contrarian writing should do: started a discussion. We spoke by phone on Tuesday, not long after his article appeared, and found that we had more in common than it appeared when I first read it.

So without trying to characterize Ioannidis’ view, I will state a strongly held view of my own: We know enough to act; indeed, there is an imperative to act strongly and swiftly. It is true that we can’t be sure either how many infections there have been in any population or the risk of needing intensive care or the case fatality rate. These uncertainties are two sides of the same coin. Nonetheless, two things are clear.

First, the number of severe cases — the product of these two unknowns — becomes fearsome in country after country if the infection is allowed to spread. In Italy, coffins of Covid-19 victims are accumulating in churches that have stopped holding funerals. In Wuhan, at the peak of the epidemic there, critical cases were so numerous that, if scaled up to the size of the U.S. population, they would have filled every intensive care bed in this country.

That is what happens when a community waits until crisis hits to try to slow transmission. Intensive care demand lags new infections by about three weeks because it takes that long for a newly infected person to get critically ill. So acting before the crisis hits — as was done in some Chinese cities outside Wuhan, and in some of the small towns in Northern Italy — is essential to prevent a health system overload.

Second, if we don’t apply control measures, the number of cases will keep going up exponentially beyond the already fearsome numbers we have seen. Scientists have estimated that the basic reproductive number of this virus is around 2. That means without control, case numbers will double, then quadruple, then be eight times as big, and so on, doubling with each “generation” of cases.

To stop an epidemic like that permanently, nearly half the population must be immune. While the exact number of people infected in each population is unknown, current estimates are that for every symptomatic case there is about one asymptomatic or very mild case.

In populations with good ascertainment of symptomatic cases, the number of infections is perhaps double what is observed (in the U.S., where testing is limited, true cases are a much higher multiple of reported cases). In well-tested countries, we can be nearly certain that no population has reached anywhere near half of its people infected. That means that when each country lets up on control measures, transmission will increase and the number of cases will grow again.

It is crucial to emphasize that a pandemic like this does not dissipate on its own, as Ioannidis suggested as a possibility. Severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) in 2003 was hammered into submission by intense public health measures in many places, which were effective because transmission was mainly from very sick people. Middle East respiratory syndrome (MERS), which emerged in 2012, is a weakly transmissible infection that causes outbreaks in hospitals, but is otherwise much less contagious than Covid-19.

There are two options for Covid-19 at the moment: long-term social distancing or overwhelmed health care systems. That is the depressing conclusion many epidemiologists have been emphasizing for weeks, and which was detailed in an analysis released this week by the Imperial College London.

Ioannidis is right that the prospect of intense social distancing for months or years is one that can hardly be imagined, let alone enacted. The alternative of letting the infection spread uncontrolled is equally unimaginable. We certainly need more data. Even more than that, we need a breakthrough to make effective treatments, vaccines, or other preventive measures available at scale.

Waiting and hoping for a miracle as health systems are overrun by Covid-19 is not an option. For the short term there is no choice but to use the time we are buying with social distancing to mobilize a massive political, economic, and societal effort to find new ways to cope with this virus.

Marc Lipsitch, D.Phil., is professor of epidemiology at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health and director of Harvard’s Center for Communicable Disease Dynamics.
 
Posts: 6319 | Location: CA | Registered: January 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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OK sorry will delete.
 
Posts: 17502 | Location: Stuck at home | Registered: January 02, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Go ahead punk, make my day
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quote:
Originally posted by chellim1:
Come on , guys... that's been posted.
Same article posted 3x in a row?
Hard to wade through the purse slapping and read everything, not surprising that stuff is posted multiple times.
 
Posts: 45798 | Registered: July 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thanks Rhino. I just missed it.
 
Posts: 17502 | Location: Stuck at home | Registered: January 02, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
goodheart
Picture of sjtill
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Glad to see the President and FDA are going ahead with use of chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine, which likely means FDA approval for on-label use; and potential compassionate use of remdesivir which is in clinical trials currently.

Here is a powerlineblog.com post that explains the issues related to accuracy of testing; and in particular explains well the Bayes theorem that highlights the potential negative effects of large numbers of false positive tests with disease that has a low prevalence.

Powerlineblog.com: Importance of accurate testing


_________________________
“ What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.”— Lord Melbourne
 
Posts: 18364 | Location: One hop from Paradise | Registered: July 27, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
wishing we
were congress
posted Hide Post
https://www.breitbart.com/poli...-tremendous-results/

President Donald Trump promoted the use of the anti-malaria drug chloroquine at the White House on Thursday, the purpose of which is to treat people infected with the coronavirus.

“We’re going to be able to make that drug available almost immediately,” Trump said at the White House press briefing on Thursday.

Trump said that chloroquine was already developed, tested, and widely available to American doctors.

“The nice part is it’s been around for a long time, so we know that if things don’t go as planned, it’s not going to kill anybody,” Trump said. The president also mentioned the anti-viral drug Remdesivir produced by Gilead as a possible treatment drug.

FDA commissioner Stephen Hahn said that under the president’s direction he would move quickly for a chloroquine clinical trial to test its ability to treat the coronavirus.

In the meantime, doctors can ask for experimental drugs to use to treat their patients as part of a “compassionate use” program.

The president stated that anti-viral drugs had shown “very, very encouraging early results” in treatment tests.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


https://www.breitbart.com/poli...onavirus-since-2005/

The world economy is collapsing because of the terror and mounting death toll caused by the Coronavirus pandemic. But the anti-malarial drug chloroquine is effective both as a prophylactic and treatment for the virus – and the medical establishment has known about this since at least the SARS coronavirus outbreak in 2005. What the hell is going on?

Yesterday, I reported the existence of three studies, all claiming that chloroquine phosphate had proved effective in treating the COVID-19.

This has since been confirmed by a more recent open-label non-randomised clinical trial in France by Didier Raoult​ M.D/Ph.D et al, completed just days ago. The sample was small but the results were convincing.

100% of patients that received a combination of HCQ and Azithromycin tested negative and were virologically cured within 6 days of treatment.

In addition, recent guidelines from South Korea and China report that hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine are effective antiviral therapeutic treatments for novel coronavirus.

But the story gets more extraordinary still. It turns out that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has known since at least 2005 that chloroquine is effective against coronaviruses.

In 2005, Martin J Vincent et al published a study in Virology Journal titled ‘Chloroquine is a potent inhibitor of SARS coronavirus infection and spread.

more at link
 
Posts: 19759 | Registered: July 21, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
An investment in knowledge
pays the best interest
posted Hide Post
^^^ The French clinical study was submitted for publication review yesterday, this time involving Hydroxychloroquine and Azithromycin as a combination therapy, with positive results. While a 36 patient study (20 positives, 16 controls) the results are very encouraging:

https://drive.google.com/file/...um4xY_IlWSHnGbj/view

The addition of the antibiotic is meant to prevent the onset of pneumonia, potentially combat later stage respiratory infections and azithromycin has shown some antiviral activity in the past against two unrelated diseases. Figure 2 is most impressive if it holds for the general population.

BTW, not all Coronaviruses are the same so saying that a potential cure was known since 2005 is a bit misleading. Studies using Chloroquin began almost immediately once nCov-19 became a concern.

Will be interesting to see if the FDA allows the use of such antibiotic combination therapies for later-stage Covid-19 patients, excepting those that are allergic to mycins and potentially those patients with pre-existing heart conditions.
 
Posts: 3371 | Location: Mid-Atlantic | Registered: December 27, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of SigSentry
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quote:
Originally posted by kkina:
Trump just announced that chloroquine has gotten the approval from the FDA and will be pushed out.

Not exactly how it works but lots going on behind the scenes.
 
Posts: 3598 | Registered: May 30, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
An investment in knowledge
pays the best interest
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by SigSentry:
quote:
Originally posted by kkina:
Trump just announced that chloroquine has gotten the approval from the FDA and will be pushed out.

Not exactly how it works but lots going on behind the scenes.

Check out page 165.
 
Posts: 3371 | Location: Mid-Atlantic | Registered: December 27, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Lawyers, Guns
and Money
Picture of chellim1
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quote:
It turns out that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has known since at least 2005 that chloroquine is effective against coronaviruses.

In 2005, Martin J Vincent et al published a study in Virology Journal titled ‘Chloroquine is a potent inhibitor of SARS coronavirus infection and spread.

Unbelievable... that's 15 years ago.
Yet, China wants to take credit for this. Roll Eyes



"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible."
-- Justice Janice Rogers Brown

"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth."
-rduckwor
 
Posts: 24610 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: April 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of maladat
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quote:
Originally posted by sjtill:
A necessary skeptical view of the current lack of evidence needed for decision-making:

...



This has been posted several times in the last few pages.

I also posted an article from the same source that is a direct response to this one and takes the other viewpoint.
 
Posts: 6319 | Location: CA | Registered: January 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Go ahead punk, make my day
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by maladat:
This has been posted several times in the last few pages.
Yeah all the tail chasing between members makes most push the fast forward button past all the lovers' quarrels, re-quoting of all the quotes, one of those 'unintended consequences', eh? Wink
 
Posts: 45798 | Registered: July 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
thin skin can't win
Picture of Georgeair
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quote:
chloroquine


Wait - is this why I can’t find any decent tonic water the last month? Cool



You only have integrity once. - imprezaguy02

 
Posts: 12692 | Location: Madison, MS | Registered: December 10, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Oh stewardess,
I speak jive.
Picture of 46and2
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A first-cousin of mine was tested officially in a local Doctors office this morning in metro Dallas, TX.

About a month ago he had what seemed and still seems like a regular upper respiratory infection.

Approximately 3wks ago he went to the Dr for it then, got a shot, some garden variety Rx, and off he went.

He has a wide friends, family, colleagues group in metro Dallas, and had many infection opportunities.

After his Dr visit I saw him twice at regional family things, and we're close so we hung out a while, many hours total. To date I feel nothing, fwiw. My only symptom of any sort is some annoying, seasonal, pollen sneezing...

But his is lingering, so he went back to the Doctor this morning, and the Doc suggested they test to be sure.

No one else in the family is reporting anything as of yet, btw, but there are many we need to check in with. But there are 8+ family members he's had contact with who are 60-76yo, most pretty healthy, though.

Anyway, they used some official test in a box, it was mailed off, and they will supposedly know the results in a week. He was asked to stay at home, wash his hands extra often, take more of the regular Rx he'd been on, wait...

Some relevant details: 39yo male, pretty healthy for a dude that never really exercises on purpose, etc, his only pre-existing condition is a slightly abnormal walk and cigarettes, but he gets around 90% normally. Fully employed, self employed, married with a kid in pre-school, not on the government train, etc.

Will post relevant updates as I have any.

I'm 50, myself, fwiw, and otherwise healthy. In an over abundance of caution I'm limiting my own travel and social interactions to a minimum and to those I've already been in contact with for this next week at least. We'll see how everyone feels and how his results come back.

No panic, no tone, no hysyeria, just deets...

Alighty then.
 
Posts: 25613 | Registered: March 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
wishing we
were congress
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Italy currently has about half the number of confirmed cases of China, but Italy's death total is now slightly larger than China's.

China: 81,155 confirmed , 3,249 deaths

Italy: 41,035 confirmed , 3,405 deaths
 
Posts: 19759 | Registered: July 21, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Lawyers, Guns
and Money
Picture of chellim1
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quote:
Originally posted by sdy:
China: 81,155 confirmed , 3,249 deaths
Italy: 41,035 confirmed , 3,405 deaths

If you can believe anything coming out of China:

Global Pandemic Could Have Been Avoided If China Had Acted Sooner, Study Finds

Instead, the communist state lied and tried to cover it up...

It has become clear that the first cases of the Chinese virus were reported in mid-late November and early December, with scientists even estimating that the first jump of the virus from animals to humans probably occurred in October in the city of Wuhan.

Instead of acting immediately, the Chinese government waited until January 23rd before issuing quarantine orders to the 11 million people living in Wuhan.

The communist state was also actively working to suppress and punish doctors and scientists who tried to get warnings out, and lied to the world by claiming there was “no evidence” of human-to-human transmission.

https://www.zerohedge.com/geop...d-sooner-study-finds



"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible."
-- Justice Janice Rogers Brown

"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth."
-rduckwor
 
Posts: 24610 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: April 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Void Where Prohibited
Picture of WaterburyBob
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I don't believe ANY numbers coming out of China. They have repeatedly lied and hid information for months.



"If Gun Control worked, Chicago would look like Mayberry, not Thunderdome" - Cam Edwards
 
Posts: 16641 | Location: Under the Boot of Tyranny in Connectistan | Registered: February 02, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Oh stewardess,
I speak jive.
Picture of 46and2
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I won't believe any of the numbers until the hindsight analysis and investigations, myself.
 
Posts: 25613 | Registered: March 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Go ahead punk, make my day
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by WaterburyBob:
I don't believe ANY numbers coming out of China. They have repeatedly lied and hid information for months.
Yeah, like they magically went to zero new cases.

Right.....

quote:
Originally posted by 46and2:
I won't believe any of the numbers until the hindsight analysis and investigations, myself.

I won't say I won't believe ANY of it, but having been around the block and time or three, I know the data & analysis is rife with issues and emotion of a thousand different sorts.

But to say that I'll reserve judgement until after the dust settles would be accurate.
 
Posts: 45798 | Registered: July 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Krazeehorse
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I have maybe just a little more confidence in CDC numbers but not much.


_____________________

Be careful what you tolerate. You are teaching people how to treat you.
 
Posts: 5721 | Location: Ohio | Registered: December 27, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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