quote:

Originally posted by oddball:
The check is in the mail.

"Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin said Tuesday that the Trump administration wants to send checks to Americans “in the next two weeks” in an effort to help people cope with the economic fallout due to the coronavirus pandemic.

“We’re looking at sending checks to Americans immediately,” Mnuchin said during a press briefing from the White House. “Americans need cash now, the president wants to get cash now. I mean now—in the next few weeks.”

I didn't like the Obama "stimulus package" so I'll be consistent...
Does the Treasury have an extra $ TRILLION just laying around, collecting dust?
No, of course not. This is just more borrowing and/or more electronic "printing" of money.

MMT is a controversial, hybrid Keynesian concept that promotes the idea that government can print as much as it wants while also offering tax cuts or direct financing to special interest groups at the same time.

Helicopter money is a form of printing funds for direct distribution.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

quote:

Originally posted by oddball:
The check is in the mail.

"Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin said Tuesday that the Trump administration wants to send checks to Americans “in the next two weeks” in an effort to help people cope with the economic fallout due to the coronavirus pandemic.

“We’re looking at sending checks to Americans immediately,” Mnuchin said during a press briefing from the White House. “Americans need cash now, the president wants to get cash now. I mean now—in the next few weeks.”

I didn't like the Obama "stimulus package" so I'll be consistent...
Does the Treasury have an extra $ TRILLION just laying around, collecting dust?
No, of course not. This is just more borrowing and/or more electronic "printing" of money.

Correct. Just kicking the can down the road. Moving April 15 down the road a bit could be helpful and not really cost anything.

here is a video that discusses zinc and chloroquine


https://www.youtube.com/watch?...p9M&feature=youtu.be

interesting discussion of how the virus works
(my understanding only limited)

Finally, a voice of reason from someone outside the medical community. It's a small voice, but at least it's there.

https://www.orlandosentinel.co...S-qGLZ4bZzLP_JPAaluw

From The Orlando Sentinel, March 17th.

As the United States, and the world, reacts to the spread of the COVID-19 virus I find myself wondering how many Americans are still alive who witnessed the economic calamity that began in October 1929. They would come in handy right now as economic advisers to a nation that is about to panic its way into a possible second Great Depression.

It is staggering to fathom how economically myopic and reactionary our “leaders” are being at this critical time in our nation’s economic history.

Everywhere we look we are being told to go home, stay home, don’t go out; don’t interact with one another and more. It is as if the politicians have been bestowed with some special powers to engage in policymaking decisions that will somehow magically defy the laws of supply and demand.

Let’s look at it.

In an economy of more than 330 million consumers who purchase more than $20 trillion in goods and services annually, how do we continue to fuel the demand side of the economy if we are told we should not buy tickets to sporting events, hotel rooms, theme parks, restaurants and more? If we only go out to buy toilet paper and medical masks, where do the millions of workers who depend on our purchases earn enough money to avoid being sent to the unemployment lines?

Our labor force and suppliers are also being bombarded by the doomsday scenarios outlined by those we put into office to make good decisions.

Sending labor suppliers home disrupts the entire supply chain of goods and services that prevent massive shortages, business closings and collapsing infrastructure. The more people who are withdrawn from the labor force the greater the threat of stagflation – a combination of high unemployment and inflation – that last reared its head in the 1970’s and early 80’s.

Of course we are all being told that these decisions, while painful for a while, will be far better than leaving us alone to make our own choices of buying, selling and working. The experts are saying that unless our lives are interrupted for an indeterminate period of time we will suffer even greater losses in the long run.

Exactly how do we know this? What if this virus goes on into the fall? How many months can our economy survive shattered by the possibility of accelerated cases around the globe? What if in the meantime we see unemployment surge to levels higher than at any time since the 1930s? What if the gross domestic product dives by double-digits?
Do we really believe that Americans are ready for an economic downturn that no one under 100 years old has ever endured? Can we really expect deprivation on a scale that eliminates virtually all luxury spending and sends millions into poverty?

It is important to note that there is virtually nothing in the way of monetary and fiscal policy that our government could use to fight another Depression.

Interest rates are already historically low and, as we saw in the 1930’s, if people are scared to borrow, nothing the Federal Reserve Bank does can compel us to incur more debt.

Taxes are also low by historical standards. Donald Trump’s recent cut in personal and corporate income taxes generated very small gains in revenue – an indication that more tax cuts would not create greater economic growth.

The federal deficit – fueled by profligate spending by both parties – is also near record levels so even more spending is not likely to create more jobs.

I am afraid that economic historians will someday look back at 2020 as the year our hyper-reactive society allowed elected officials to shut down the largest economy in the world and ended up destroying more lives from the ensuing economic meltdown than the virus would have.

The author is an economics professor at Valencia College and a senior fellow with the James Madison Institute in Tallahassee.

quote:

Originally posted by sdy:
here is a video that discusses zinc and chloroquine


https://www.youtube.com/watch?...p9M&feature=youtu.be

interesting discussion of how the virus works
(my understanding only limited)

That's where I saw the information.

quote:

Originally posted by holdem:
Finally, a voice of reason from someone outside the medical community. It's a small voice, but at least it's there.

https://www.orlandosentinel.co...S-qGLZ4bZzLP_JPAaluw

The author raises some very thought provoking points. From the projected numbers I've seen from the CDC, potentially 2.2 million people could die if this disease is not mitigated. Not a tiny number, but still only about .67% of the total population. Are we willing to destroy our economy to mitigate the China virus? Maybe a massive mobilization of resources to build temporary hospitals for those that require it would be the better option.

Hopefully this is just EU inspired tripe; it is occurring in Belgium after all...a shift to young, otherwise healthy people not normally as affected by this wouldn’t be good news if accurate.

https://nypost.com/2020/03/17/...short-of-terrifying/


A Belgian doctor working to battle the coronavirus says he’s treated several seriously ill young patients — and their lung scans were “nothing short of terrifying,” according to reports.

Dr. Ignace Demeyer, who works at a hospital in Aalst, said an increasing number of people between the ages of 30 and 50 have presented with severe symptoms, despite having “blank medical records” that show no underlying conditions that would make them high-risk, the Brussels Times reported.

“They just walk in, but they are terribly affected by the virus,” Demeyer told the Belgian broadcaster VRT.

He said CT scans indicated they were suffering from severe lung damage.

“The images we took yesterday are nothing short of terrifying,” the doctor told the station.

“They are people who do not smoke, who have no other conditions such as diabetes or heart failure,” Demeyer added.

Belgium has reported at least 1,085 COVID-19 cases and at least five deaths since the virus emerged in China in December.

Worldwide, there have been more than 190,000 people infected as of Tuesday afternoon, according to a tally from Johns Hopkins University.

We won't know if any economic - or medical - decision regarding this pandemic is the "right" one for weeks or months. Decisions are being made both for the economy and the pandemic based on possibilities and probabilities. Probably the only things we've done that we can say for both are "correct" is, ramp up the healthcare system across the country- in progress - and start research on curing and preventing. Everything else is "what if." If one in ten members of this forum, or half of us, are dead in six months, we can say, "Damn, wish we had done X or Y." If nobody gets the sniffles, we can say "Damn, wish we hadn't trashed the economy." The virus is capable of going either direction, with different probabilities daily.

Hopefully, and probably , Door #2 is correct and within a fortnight we can go back to what's left of normal. The fear is - in the market, in the businesses and the streets and homes, that Door # 1 is lurking around the corner. And it could be - a possibility. A very serious game of poker is going on right now.

Doc H or any other docs, can you comment on this video? Any truth to it? Is it worth considering for any virus?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkAjLe3l5SA

quote:

Originally posted by BansheeOne:
Now we got that box ticked, let's watch Spain.

Spain looks about to blow. If they're not gonna go down Italy’s trajectory completely it will be because they had some warning to prepare. A Spaniard on another board said four days ago that another 100 ICU beds were being added to the 350 in the Madrid region, but noted that the far lesser availability in more remote regions was a problem.

Development of the CFR in the UK also gives reason for concern, though the total case count is comparatively low, probably due to lack of testing capacities. France looks to be somewhat holding its rate, and might get the curve with the draconian curfew measures. I got the feeling that the US is going to be mostly okay; CFR keeps dropping so far, while in Italy it never went below 2.5 percent before skyrocketing.

Italy - 2,503 : 31,506 = 7.9 %

Iran - 988 : 16,169 = 6.1 % (FWIW)

Spain - 533 : 11,748 = 4.5 %

Germany - 24 : 9,357 = 0.3 %

South Korea - 81 : 8,320 = 1.0 %

France - 175 : 7,730 = 2.3 %

US - 99 : 5,915 = 1.7 %

Switzerland - 27 : 2,742 = 1.0 %

UK - 71 : 1,950 = 3.6 %

Netherlands - 43 : 1,705 = 2.5 %

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:
New York is a very big "hotspot":

1700 cases now confirmed...
Washington State used to be the Wu Flu leader, now it's New York with its' high population density.

Big Trouble in Little China?

https://www.womply.com/blog/he...rmarkets-nationwide/

Check out Utah

quote:

Originally posted by 6guns:
Doc H or any other docs, can you comment on this video? Any truth to it? Is it worth considering for any virus?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkAjLe3l5SA

I believe most viruses are susceptible to higher temperatures. There was actually a product on the market at one time that simply delivered the appropriate amounts of warm heat. I used to have one. Did it work? Not sure, and in fact I believe the company that made it was the subject of lawsuits and went out of business. Nonetheless, I think there is something to the theory, and it wasn't pure snake oil. And yes, you can replicate the procedure with a simple hair blow dryer on a low setting.

quote:

Originally posted by 6guns:
Doc H or any other docs, can you comment on this video? Any truth to it? Is it worth considering for any virus?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkAjLe3l5SA

The very short answer is "no." A longer version is "Not only no, but hell no." Hair dryers, saunas, hot baths, sticking your head in an oven - no, no, no and no (although a hot bath or sauna does make you feel better). Heat high enough to even inconvenience the virus would likely more than inconvenience - as in "cook" - you, the human. The virus isn't sitting around waiting to be fried, but it's buried in your tissues, literally, in a very short time from exposure (the little guy floating around is actually a virion. It doesn't become a virus until it's actually inside a cell). Having said that, warm temperatures may, possibly, diminish the virus's ability to spread. Equatorial zones are, in fact, seeing a slight reduction in transmission. This could be artifact (not enough "n") or it could mean that there will indeed be a seasonal effect on this pathogen. I still hold out a possibility, although researchers disagree. We shall see.

quote:

Originally posted by 1KPerDay:
https://www.womply.com/blog/he...rmarkets-nationwide/

Check out Utah

Be nice if that Womply article included New Jersey and New England on the map...

Meanwhile, in the land of low IQs, millenials are licking shitters.

quote:

Originally posted by sdy:
here is a video that discusses zinc and chloroquine


https://www.youtube.com/watch?...p9M&feature=youtu.be

interesting discussion of how the virus works
(my understanding only limited)

Thanks so much for this, a little hope goes a very long way.

quote:

Originally posted by LS1 GTO:

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:
New York is a very big "hotspot":

1700 cases now confirmed...
Washington State used to be the Wu Flu leader, now it's New York with its' high population density.

I am wondering if it has to do with their eating habits that is; NYC people seem to have a tendency to eat out more often than the rest of the nation and hence, with the virulence of the virus, NYC may be in a position to spread the virus with more efficiency.

It is also one of the biggest travel destinations in the world with over 60 million having traveled through it last year.

You guys broke SGammo.com.

They shut off their website and it says they are too far behind to take new ammo orders.

quote:

Originally posted by bubbatime:
You guys broke SGammo.com.

They shut off their website and it says they are too far behind to take new ammo orders.

Um yeah...sorry 'bout that.