quote:

Originally posted by Shaql:

quote:

Originally posted by 220-9er:
I wouldn't consider a rent a cop or lifeguard even though they might be the first to show up in an emergency. So might a private citizen if they happened to be close by.
Police, Fire Dept. or EMS.

The conventional definition of a first responder is meant for civil authorities such as police or fireman or others that are trained to go into harms way.

A first responder, IMO, is someone who will go into harms way in order to save another. A lifeguard into an undertow, a security guard who tries to stop a robbery, a fireman, policeman, or private citizen.

I disagree that the first responder needs to be in danger of physical harm to themselves. That would disqualify most EMS or other first aid responders who arrive at the scene of an accident. You don't need to be in danger of getting shot at or injured yourself to be a first responder.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

quote:

To whom the situation affects.

So, lawyers, right?

You jest but the question actually has merit. Prosecutors and judges face a lot of safety concerns from former inmates and from the family and friends of current and former inmates. I know several judges and prosecutors and they will not eat in certain restaurants or even in the jurisdiction where they work because of safety concerns. Of course, a judge or prosecutor isn't running into a burning building or an active shooter situation (nor should they). However, they have to be concerned about the angry or disgruntled individual gunning for the person who put them or their loved one in prison. In addition judges who handle domestic cases, involving children, see an anger from the parties that many times dwarfs criminal cases. For them, its the backend that's dangerous. SIG, GLOCK, etc. agree and give them the IOP discount from what I've been told.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: BB61,

I'm a security guard and a 1st responder. I must respond to any medical emergency, or other emergency that originates on the floor I'm responsible for. For instance, an active shooter scenario requires me to inform personnel of what's happening, and provide security of such personnel until all are safe, including engagement if that's what's necessary. In a medical emergency, I'm required to assist within my training: basic first aid, CPR, and AED as required. In case of fire, my duties are to make sure everyone evacuates before I exit the floor.

Don't discount security guards. Many of us are well trained in what we need to do in case of an emergency, whether medical, tactical, chemical, or explosives. The training is rigorous and we hope never to use it!

quote:

Originally posted by 220-9er:
I wouldn't consider a rent a cop or lifeguard even though they might be the first to show up in an emergency. So might a private citizen if they happened to be close by.
Police, Fire Dept. or EMS.

Lifeguards are first responders. To me one of the defining characteristics is "duty to act".
I as a lay volunteer am not bound by a "duty to act". Even as an instructor I do not generally have a "duty to act". Even my instructor trainer once commented that she no longer has a "duty to act", she also instructs at the college level, she did when she was an active EMT have a "duty to act". I asked why we offered (we being the local Boy Scout Council) the CPR for the Professional Rescuer course? The course is required for all BSA lifeguards, even youth. And they do have a "duty to act".

I hate the term. It is a dumbing down of our language. Another media term that has little value in my opinion. It lacks specificity and is designed to be "INCLUSIVE."

quote:

Originally posted by bigwagon:

quote:

Originally posted by Shaql:

quote:

Originally posted by 220-9er:
I wouldn't consider a rent a cop or lifeguard even though they might be the first to show up in an emergency. So might a private citizen if they happened to be close by.
Police, Fire Dept. or EMS.

The conventional definition of a first responder is meant for civil authorities such as police or fireman or others that are trained to go into harms way.

A first responder, IMO, is someone who will go into harms way in order to save another. A lifeguard into an undertow, a security guard who tries to stop a robbery, a fireman, policeman, or private citizen.

I disagree that the first responder needs to be in danger of physical harm to themselves. That would disqualify most EMS or other first aid responders who arrive at the scene of an accident. You don't need to be in danger of getting shot at or injured yourself to be a first responder.

I disagree with your disagreement. Everybody knows that firefighters are America's favorite 2nd Responders.

Just keeping it simple, a first responder to me is the first one there who rolled up their sleeves and made a difference. Their actual title would not be important.

I consider "first responders" as anyone who responds to an emergency and is involved in managing it. The 911 call receiver, the dispatcher, police, fire, ems. Could certainly include private security, ambulance service, SAR volunteers, and more.

Don't have to be physically on the scene. I've seen many calls where the scene would never even be found if not for call receivers skillful handling of hysterical or uncooperative callers.

quote:

Originally posted by PD:
The term is not what we consider, think, or feel. It's defined by the feds.

Homeland Security Presidential Directive, HSPD-8[4] reads:

The term "first responder" refers to those individuals who in the early stages of an incident are responsible for the protection and preservation of life, property, evidence, and the environment, including emergency response providers as defined in section 2 of the Homeland Security Act of 2002 (6 U.S.C. § 101), as well as emergency management, public health, clinical care, public works, and other skilled support personnel (such as equipment operators) that provide immediate support services during prevention, response, and recovery operations.

Thanks for that PD. I knew they defined it some where.

In some locales the first responders are the folks that rob the downed victim before the Police/EMS arrives.

quote:

Originally posted by 911Boss:
I consider "first responders" as anyone who responds to an emergency and is involved in managing it. The 911 call receiver, the dispatcher, police, fire, ems. Could certainly include private security, ambulance service, SAR volunteers, and more.

Don't have to be physically on the scene. I've seen many calls where the scene would never even be found if not for call receivers skillful handling of hysterical or uncooperative callers.

This. I have worked both sides of the radio, and I can say without a doubt that the people answering 911 calls save many lives and suffer the pains of on-scene responders.
I've seen many dispatchers with PTSD, myself included. It's a tough job. We are the FIRST first responders.

But according to the government, we're just clerical workers. Grrrrrr.

One of the greatest lies foisted onto the American sheeple by our government is the term "first responder".

When a tragedy occurs, whether natural or man made, if you are lying down you are a victim. If you are standing up, you are a first responder.

The people who are paid to show up and clean up the mess are professional second responders.

Now whether you are qualified to do anything as a first responder is another story. But starting the conversation by saying it is someone else's job is a certain recipe for disaster.

After the 9/11 terrorist attacks was when this ass hattery of "first responder" started.

Immediately after the attacks, there was a collective pause of our Nation's conscious. People everywhere were asking what could they do for their country. They wanted to be patriots again.

And what was the response to this critical moment in our nation's history? Go shop in the malls. We have professionals to handle this.

And the rest, of course, is history.

I'm not passionate about this differentiation. But I think being trained in CPR would be a good litmus.

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
I hate the term. It is a dumbing down of our language. Another media term that has little value in my opinion. It lacks specificity and is designed to be "INCLUSIVE."

I agree 100% I used to be a firefighter and we responded to all wrecks and first aid calls. Now they throw out that Firs Responders name when you ask who came to the call and it could be any agency.

Illustration



Shit hitting fan <----- First responders run this direction

quote:

Originally posted by chongosuerte:

quote:

Originally posted by bigwagon:

quote:

Originally posted by Shaql:

quote:

Originally posted by 220-9er:
I wouldn't consider a rent a cop or lifeguard even though they might be the first to show up in an emergency. So might a private citizen if they happened to be close by.
Police, Fire Dept. or EMS.

The conventional definition of a first responder is meant for civil authorities such as police or fireman or others that are trained to go into harms way.

A first responder, IMO, is someone who will go into harms way in order to save another. A lifeguard into an undertow, a security guard who tries to stop a robbery, a fireman, policeman, or private citizen.

I disagree that the first responder needs to be in danger of physical harm to themselves. That would disqualify most EMS or other first aid responders who arrive at the scene of an accident. You don't need to be in danger of getting shot at or injured yourself to be a first responder.

I disagree with your disagreement. Everybody knows that firefighters are America's favorite 2nd Responders.

Hahahah it must be odd to beat us on scene? I know in my city we beat PD to everything so I guess the shoes on the other foot here. However there are times I would much prefer PD to be first....

quote:

Originally posted by Broadside:
One of the greatest lies foisted onto the American sheeple by our government is the term "first responder".

Absolutely not. If this thread was a test question almost everyone here would have it wrong.

Although the use of ICS/UC has been practiced for many years it didn’t see widespread and mandatory use until post 9/11. Additionally, the post 9/11 years saw increased grant funding, training, and mutual aid. This would be very difficult to manage if there was no legal definition for “first responder.” Who becomes a grant recipient, who gets new equipment, who gets the training, and most importantly who responds to a particular incident and becomes accountable and responsible?

You gotta know who does what

I know we don't fit the description of " First Responder " and that's cool , but after a natural disaster , utility workers are a welcome sight.

quote:

Originally posted by selogic:
I know we don't fit the description of " First Responder " and that's cool , but after a natural disaster , utility workers are a welcome sight.

If it makes you feel better just know someone from the utilities has a position within the emergency operations center when the shit hits the fan

Yea, the term first responder is not one of my favorites. Officially limited to paid folks with official training and perhaps legal authority, but in my view expanded to non-paid folks with training ranging from official to self-trained.

I agree with the 911 call ops being professional first responders via the radio/telephone. Also agree with the PTSD comment. One of the after action reports from Amateur Radio comms support from Katrina, is that the found a need for PTSD counseling for Amateurs with all the health and welfare traffic messages the handled. I can see handling such traffic causing a non-hardened person getting pretty depressed. It even applies more so for 911 ops who do this hourly (spent a few hours in a 911 center - interesting to say the least).

I'm CERT (Civilian Emergency Response Team) certified, as well as ICS 100/200/700/800 (yes, very basic but required per FEMA in order to operate in a EOC (emergency operations center). I'm also a registered communications volunteer for my local county sheriff's office (same background check as you LEO's go thru). All unpaid volunteer activities.

From a CERT perspective, in a mass casualty and infrastructure event, it was quite sobering when the Fire Marshall told the class that the FD is going to be saving INTEL's fabs or other potentially disastrous public/private facilities capable of adding to the mayhem, that you in your residential area will be on your own for some time. You are now the first responder.

So, I'm a unpaid volunteer first responder with some training - more than the average person, but when the professionals of higher authority arrive, they became the folks in charge, and I have no issue with this at all. Good man (or woman) knows their limitations.