The comment about "safest" was not implying the instructors stated "leaving the home was safest".

But that the statement by them, was the "safest", for public consumption.

It's an ass covering legal position.

"...everything you say, can and will, be used against you in a court of law."

I take info given from firearms trainers with a grain of salt. I would consider their background before I ever considered taking their advice. But even among the former tier 1 military guys that offer firearms training, you find conflicting info. Most of it falls into preference versus being wrong or right though.
I would say this would apply more to an ill trained person. Someone new to firearms may be better off fleeing instead of fighting but that really depends on the person.

quote:

Originally posted by chongosuerte:
If someone is kicking in my door while I’m here, they aren’t here to steal my crap.

Yep, they have another agenda other than quietly stealing valuables, there is a really good chance they are there to do physical harm. Running away while one has the means to fire back is a piss-poor strategy that can cause more harm than safety.

I would not think that Tier 1 guys have expertise or formal training in home defense scenarios, which involve a lot more than just discharging a firearm. That's not to say they don't have any good suggestions - just understand that they grew up playing by different sets of engagement rules.

One bit of advice I did get (and took) from a Tier 1 OP was to establish and maintain choke points and do not deviate by "going hunting" outside or on secondary floors.

quote:

Who here doesn’t have serious firepower in their bedroom or home?

We all know our home’s layout better than anyone who would be foolish to enter. By defending your home from the inside you will never have a legal issue as your home is your castle ( maybe not in Cali..) If you exit and get into a confrontation there may be legal issues to deal with but inside that won’t be the case.

THIS is SIGforum!

The answers to the question are reasonable and what I would expect here.
However, the members here have thought more about this scenario and are better prepared than your average homeowner.

Ayoob teaches deadly force "In the gravest extreme!"

Anyone entering my bedroom without permission creates the Gravest Extreme. After their demise, I still have lawyers, guns and money... and will still be alive to defend myself.

I am not being combative - my life and that of my wife stands above any man-made law. G*d forgive me if I am forced to take a life in our defense... no other Judgment concerns me.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

quote:

Who here doesn’t have serious firepower in their bedroom or home?

We all know our home’s layout better than anyone who would be foolish to enter. By defending your home from the inside you will never have a legal issue as your home is your castle ( maybe not in Cali..) If you exit and get into a confrontation there may be legal issues to deal with but inside that won’t be the case.

THIS is SIGforum!

The answers to the question are reasonable and what I would expect here.

This reminds me of the classic line from the XtraNormal video that went viral over a decade ago:

I mentioned the "serious firepower" only because the invaders are harder to stop now. If you can stop four grizzly bears with what you have, that is dandy. The bad guys now are so stoned they don't feel anything, wearing vests and using shotguns, Monday morning quarterback kinda thing, stay and shoot it out or avoid if possible?

I haven’t read all the replies so perhaps it’s been mentioned already, but “Don’t resist; retreat,” is something that people who have been paying attention to self-defense law and measures have long been exposed to. And not just from private companies hoping to avoid being sued into oblivion because of an offhand comment an employee makes.

The reason for the “stand your ground” and “castle doctrine” statutes in various states is because of previous court (i.e., legal) rulings that victims did have a legal obligation to run away if possible rather than fight and injure or kill an attacker. Even Colorado (if we can believe it ) has a law allowing the use of deadly force in the face of a dangerous threat in one’s home. (It was passed a long time ago, though.) I remember reading as a kid that police in New York strongly advised, even demanded, that crime victims not resist, and such notions have hardly disappeared today.

And although I’m in no way suggesting that we try to flee rather than defend ourselves, even if alone in the house, a comment about the supposed increased danger to us if we do:

During a training class about active killer incidents I attended years ago some other emergency service dispatchers mentioned that the guidance they had been given was that running out of a school, etc., could be dangerous because of the possibility of other shooters waiting outside for victims.

There are at least three problems with such advice. First is that a very few such incidents have involved someone’s waiting outside for that purpose. Even when there are multiple attackers, they seldom split up like that. Second, if there is one or even two outside, how do they cover a large building like a school or even a church (unless, of course the morons inside have locked all but one door as happened at least once)? Last, who is in greater danger? Someone cowering on the floor under a desk 6 feet from the shooter, or the one sprinting across a parking lot 50 yards away?

If someone is invading our physical residence, and unless we’ve really annoyed a drug cartel or our good buddy Putin and the Russian SVR and they are looking for us specifically, what is the motive of invader(s) who are strangers* to us? To attack us as we’re running out the back door to include having backup at the rear, or for some other, much more likely reason?

No, I’m not going to try to run away and for several reasons, but it’s not that bad advice for many people.

* Yes, a lot of such incidents don’t involve strangers, but rather murderous offspring, ex-spouses, etc., and if you’re in that situation it may be best to run away by changing your name and moving to another state.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Identify choke points in your home and defend one if possible. Know the difference between cover and concealment.

Wait, you mean two pieces of 1/2" drywall won't make the booleets give off a ricochet sound?

If I was faced with a home invasion, I would let loose with all the firepower I had at my disposal. Shoot every one of them, but hopefully they would all survive so the court system would put every one of them away for a long time.

If such criminals are badly injured, they and their friends will most likely cross my house off as a potential future target.

Once criminals learn some details of a house, such as in a burglary, they sometimes come back because they know their crimes work at that location. I would hope to make their learning experience costly and painful, so they would search for a softer target.

quote:

Originally posted by c1steve:
Shoot every one of them, but hopefully they would all survive so the court system would put every one of them away for a long time.

I see you are very optimistic about our court system…….

Oh, yeah: Anyone who responds to the possible loss of material possessions by saying they are insured is a certifiable idiot. He knows nothing about me: what I have insured or even what I can insure for whatever reason—not least its cost. And he evidently knows nothing about insurance: again, what can be insured, but also what no amount of money can replace or even how much of the cost of replacement will be covered by insurance even if replacement is possible.

It’s a prime example of “It’s far better to keep your mouth shut and be thought to be an ignorant fool than to open it and remove all doubt.”

quote:

Originally posted by c1steve:
Once criminals learn some details of a house, such as in a burglary, they sometimes come back because they know their crimes work at that location. I would hope to make their learning experience costly and painful, so they would search for a softer target.

I vaguely recall a story in the news here about 15 years ago where a guy bought a car, paid cash, and asked to use the bathroom at some point during the negotiation. A couple hours later, the car buyer’s buddies went into the sliding glass door in the back of the house, held the seller’s wife at gunpoint, and demanded the cash.

In all fairness, I would fight my way to a defensible location where my flanks would not be exposed and the only path to pursue would be a chokepoint that I could completely cover. The more time the better my weapon. At the other extreme, I guess I can just curl up in the fetal position and wait to die! Never being faced with such a threat, I’d like to believe I am more prepared than the statistical probability of such a scenario actually happening to me.

As it was said, have a plan and execute it as best as possible. Making a hasty retreat is up to the individual, but how does one know if there are more threats on the outside as you attempt to retreat. Either way, I think it comes down to you and being good with your choice. I have a plan, do you?

Be like "Saturday night in Sioux city".

.

quote:

Originally posted by AzMikeCFD102:
..both instructors claimed it is best when you are faced with a home invasion to leave your home.

It's swell when your home invaders are nice, reasonable types, open to options and new ideas.

I don't want the police to hear anyone's version of events but my own.

Our house is on a one way, private street. Any car that “doesn’t belong” is scrutinized by someone. We are not visible from the road which requires someone to enter the driveway suspiciously to stake out the house making them obvious to neighbors. We have a healthy number of county and state police in a relatively short response distance.

We have an Aussie that is very alert- she lets us know any time a vehicle comes down the driveway. If she somehow misses cues, there are 2 blink cameras covering an approach (it’s virtually impossible for a random person/group to come to the house any other way due to neighbor properties and long stretches of woods and fields behind the neighborhood. The front door is ALWAYS locked when we are home.

Lastly, there is not a minute when I am awake that I don’t have a P365 on my person. After hours, everyone in the house sleeps upstairs which has a marvelous choke point stairs approach… and there is obviously a loaded carbine at the ready in a hidden, quick to access location. There are even secondary rifles for other players on the second floor should it come to a pitched battle somehow (unlikely). It would be a bloodbath to any invaders that didn’t flee at the first shot fired.