Geographic differences matter a little but we pay $500 for essentially an annual service in Maine. 25K Generac.

quote:

Originally posted by rscalzo:

quote:

Originally posted by steelcityfishanddive:
Yes it's a ripoff for an annual maintenance that costs about $50 for plugs, filters, and oil.

Not even close. My serv ice tech who has handled it for years He charges $235. The service is much more than a simple oil change. Oil, and all filters. A terst of the battery and charging systems. He also checks the output and makes sure it's set to operate the electronics in the house without damage. all in all he is there almost two hours checking everything. The exterior panels at all removed to check the mounts and baffles and air ducts. If parts are needed, they are replaced right then.

While you could do it yourself, unless you have the knowledge, I'd avoid it.

Why does it run the exercise cycle daily?

One thing he did tell me about the newer Generac systems. The exercise cycle was shortened and doesn't allow the oil to heat up enough to burn off the moisture. Because if that the oil changes are coming out with a milky look indicating water.

I recommend anyone who has only had generator exercise all year do a loaded test run of at least 30 minutes twice a year. This is especially true for liquid cooled units.

quote:

Originally posted by rscalzo:

Why does it run the exercise cycle daily?

It doesn't.
It's once a week (Sundays @ 2pm)

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
I recommend anyone who has only had generator exercise all year do a loaded test run of at least 30 minutes twice a year. This is especially true for liquid cooled units.

Good idea for air cooled units as well. It burns off any water in the oil from condensation. The engines don’t get hot enough during the short exercise runs to do that.

quote:

Originally posted by steelcityfishanddive:
Yes it's a ripoff for an annual maintenance that costs about $50 for plugs, filters, and oil.

No it isn't a "ripoff"
I take it you work for free?

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
I recommend anyone who has only had generator exercise all year do a loaded test run of at least 30 minutes twice a year. This is especially true for liquid cooled units.

Good idea for air cooled units as well. It burns off any water in the oil from condensation. The engines don’t get hot enough during the short exercise runs to do that.

The only reason I mentioned liquid cooled more so is mass. Have to warm up more metal plus liquid vs less mass on air cooled.

Either way it's the same recommendation for both air/liquid.

I only read about it once while trying to figure out why my generator's oil was fine and my dad's generator's oil had water in it when I changed them. The houses are adjacent. The difference was that while trying to follow the instructions for the oil change, I flipped the main panel breaker and the generator kicked in to run the house. I let it run for 30 minutes or so while I reread the manual. The main goal was to prevent the generator from kicking in while changing the oil and the instructions are not clear.

Anyway, my understanding is liquid-cooled generators have a thermostat. These generators can be set to run with no load long enough (15-30 minutes IIRC) to get hot enough to eliminate the water. The air-cooled ones, having no method to reduce their cooling capabilities, can run for hours at no load and not get hot enough to eliminate the water in colder climates like Northern Michigan in the winter.

This is all great information, I've been trying to talk my wife into us getting an emergency generator for years but she says no. It would be nice to have one... we don't need a lot if power goes off in the winter... just for lights and to keep the freezer & fridge going. (Heat is gas and no need for electricity) But in the summer we would need AC ... this would be for three mini-split units with one compressor .... but then would probably need to run the other two units on a separate compressor because they are on the opposite side of the house from where the generator would be...

I was surprised at the need to change the oil every year... until I read and understood the potential for water in it... one question... how does an air cooled engine stay cooler longer than a water cooled one?

With a liquid-cooled engine, the thermostat blocks the coolant from flowing through the radiator (it keeps flowing through the engine) until the coolant reaches the temperature the thermostat is set to open at. This allows the engine to warm up faster and maintain a consistent operating temperature. With an air-cooled engine, cooling air is continuously flowing across the cooling fins. In cold climates and without a load, the engine doesn’t generate enough heat to warm up to the point water is eliminated. The water comes from condensation inside the engine.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
I only read about it once while trying to figure out why my generator's oil was fine and my dad's generator's oil had water in it when I changed them. The houses are adjacent. The difference was that while trying to follow the instructions for the oil change, I flipped the main panel breaker and the generator kicked in to run the house. I let it run for 30 minutes or so while I reread the manual. The main goal was to prevent the generator from kicking in while changing the oil and the instructions are not clear.

Anyway, my understanding is liquid-cooled generators have a thermostat. These generators can be set to run with no load long enough (15-30 minutes IIRC) to get hot enough to eliminate the water. The air-cooled ones, having no method to reduce their cooling capabilities, can run for hours at no load and not get hot enough to eliminate the water in colder climates like Northern Michigan in the winter.

This is not correct. As someone who was factory trained to maintain generators, I can assure you that liquid cooled take longer to heat up and regardless of load air cooled units will get very hot.

To do oil change I would run engine to get oil hot the larger the unit the longer to come to temperature and the smallest liquid ones take longer than largest air ones.

At work our generators are slightly larger either 2MW or 2.5MW (100+ times larger than home units). These units have three heaters in them to keep coolant at 90°F+ all year round.

Way to high, shop around if you can. I had a 20kw Generac in Fl. and paid less than $300 per year for 2 visits including oil change and testing of the xfer switch.

quote:

Originally posted by sig229-SAS:
Way to high, shop around if you can. I had a 20kw Generac in Fl. and paid less than $300 per year for 2 visits including oil change and testing of the xfer switch.

I wouldn't do it on the side for my best friend for that price.

Peace of mind has high value.

Certainly most here could maintain a generator. At some life stage, one can decide what battles to fight. $410 for an annual service is not trivial, but their expertise, if true, is worth it. I would focus more on finding the best technician for this cost and less about choosing to have someone service the unit.

quote:

Originally posted by Sunset_Va:
I have a 22w Generac and do the oil changes. The prices you stated seems rather high for me. Probably 80% labor.

I have a 22kw Generac and do all my own maintenance. Amazon offers a kit with oil filter, plugs, and air filter for like $30 (just pick up the oil at your favorite auto parts store) and it takes me all of 20 minutes to do the service, usually while I'm doing other things outside. Way too easy, convenient, and way less expensive not to do it myself.

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
I recommend anyone who has only had generator exercise all year do a loaded test run of at least 30 minutes twice a year. This is especially true for liquid cooled units.

Or just live in Florida given you'll likely be load testing the damn thing ever week or two.

I'd guess it is more about what you get. If all they do is change the oil, its way too high. If they do a full service, check, and adjust, it is probably very reasonable.

If there are no batteries, it likely doesn't make sense to have a generator much bigger than the largest total load you wish to carry during an outage. If the generator is working in conjunction with a battery bank, having a larger generator can allow you to fully charge your battery bank more quickly so that you have more peace and quite when it isn't running.

quote:

Originally posted by slosig:
I'd guess it is more about what you get. If all they do is change the oil, its way too high. If they do a full service, check, and adjust, it is probably very reasonable.

If he's running an air cooled stand alone, the maintenance 'is' changing the oil and filters and throwing a new set of plugs in every (I can't remember the number of hours for mine). And if you suggest checking/setting the values is part of that process, I'll tell you that not even Generac Technical Support could give me the valve gap specs for my generator, and the two local guys I called both suggested setting the valves to different specs.

Long story short, if you can do basic maintenance on your car or motorcycle, you can do the required maintenance on a stand alone while saving money and hassles dealing with generator 'techs'. Now for repairs, that's a whole other conversation.

The price seems absolutely ridiculous to me.

Two quarts of oil and an oil filter is $12-16. A spark plug is $4. An air filter (not needed every year) is $20. A battery every 4-5 years is $50.

You can throw your money away if you want, but that price is robbery.

Read the manual. Check the battery voltage. Check the oil level. Try to start it manually.

If you are not handy you might have to have someone come diagnose and fix it for you, to get it running again.

For the maintenance... find a local guy. Many small engine guys will make a house call and complete all the maintenance for WAY cheaper than that company quoted you.

I prefer to do the maintenance myself. I know EXACTLY which oil is used. I know it was done right. I know it was filled to the proper level and not under/over filled.

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
This is not correct. As someone who was factory trained to maintain generators, I can assure you that liquid cooled take longer to heat up and regardless of load air cooled units will get very hot.

To do oil change I would run engine to get oil hot the larger the unit the longer to come to temperature and the smallest liquid ones take longer than largest air ones.

Not a lot of people are aware of this, but air cooled engine temp is based on the ambient outside temp.

In Florida, a stationary air cooled engine will probably be running around 210-230 degrees F, most of the time (oil and block temp. Cylinder head temp is much hotter). So if you take 230 degrees, substract 80 degrees ambient outside temp, you can see that the engine runs about 150 degrees hotter than ambient temp.

Now, move that same engine to up north somewhere where the ambient temp is 30 degrees. 30 plus 150 means the engine will likely be in the 180 degree ball park (block and oil temp) . Go farther north, where the temp is 0 degree, add in the 150 degree, and the engine will likely run about 150 degrees block and oil temp.

This is why southern ran engines should bump the viscosity up. A 10W30 oil at 150 degrees is THICK. While that same engine, ran in Florida, and running 230 degree oil temps, would not be sufficiently protected by a 10W30. 10W30 oil at 230 degrees is very very thin, and marginal. Folks dont understand the viscosity temperature curve. A 10W30 at 150 degrees is far thicker than a 20W50 oil at 230 degrees.