ArtieS:

Well said!

We came to Central Florida 25 years ago; now I refuse to venture on to I-4 no matter what.

This is a multifaceted problem.

I see it as directly connected to the problems I've been having with young people in the trades.

They don't want to learn how to do it, they feel oppressed when supervised, they don't want to do the dirty work just skip to the work that requires knowledge and skill.

Knowledge and skill that come from doing dirty work.

It is already decades in process, and it is the parents.

My son will be alien, in fact he already is. We limit the hell out of his screen time, and we don't put up with him when he's an asshole.

Life and the world are difficult places. As a parent, it is your job to give your child tools. Not protect them. Because you won't always be there.

Give them the tools. Show them the job. Support them, but don't do it for them.

Just like the kids with food allergies, or other issues, I have to think a piece of it is that they were never allowed to go get dirty, go skin a knee. Literally or emotionally. Now they have no real handle on what is dangerous in the real world.

I don't know about you, but my goal is to make sure my son doesn't need me.

I'd like to take this one step further in that the basic level of communication has deteriorated to a point that people "lose it".

Have you ever read an old handwritten letter from someone from a century ago? Perhaps several decades ago? The way an intelligent person can articulate their thoughts is not demeaning but rather forthright.

If people had a better grasp of language instead of knee jerk reaction we would all be better off.

I agree with most of what other people have posted regarding accountability for actions as well. It' so simple to take the easy way out when the consequences are trivial.

Cheers~

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:
My son will be alien, in fact he already is. We limit the hell out of his screen time, and we don't put up with him when he's an asshole.

Ever seen a 16 year old that wasn't raised with the limits you put on your son. They are impossible to be around. Your parenting style is going to pay off big time when you son reaches his teen years.

Growing up, we knew we’d be caught. Break a window and your parents would hear about it.
Now, it’s “snitches get stitches” and people “don’t want to get involved.”
When I returned to teaching I was shocked at kids thinking they could call my bluff. No, I don’t bluff. However, when a call parents, I had to Have the details nailed down cold. Their little precious could do no wrong and I was either a nasty person or an incompetent teacher. The best thing I could do was to get a parent into the classroom. Recall one that watched their kid. They then walked up, took the kid by the arm, and march out. Last I heard was “I’ll take care of this!”

One culture learns from the other. The louder the yell the most attention one gets.
The most rage gets the most action.
Use to throwing a fit was ignored now it's highlighted.
If ppl went back to "the one with the most mental and emotional tempered facts is the one we listen to"

quote:

I see this at work with one of my subordinates. When she feels questioned, or “attacked", she will spew venom and be a really unpleasant person.
When confronted about it, she breaks down, completely.

Sounds like it is time for a transfer! To the unemployed!

quote:

Originally posted by Elk Hunter:

quote:

I see this at work with one of my subordinates. When she feels questioned, or “attacked", she will spew venom and be a really unpleasant person.
When confronted about it, she breaks down, completely.

Sounds like it is time for a transfer! To the unemployed!

Long story short, I work for a company of 100 chances, and everyone gets a trophy. I was raised the same way most of us here were. I am an odd duck, and considered harsh, gruff, and militant. I simply want to add structure and accountability.
Not part of the owner’s vocabulary. You would be amazed at some of the crap I have dealt with in the last 7 months.
But it pays the bills and is a high paying job for this area.

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:
Fewer people than ever have been punched in the face at least once in their lives. Or met with any real consequence from a tantrum.

Well stated. I'm no shrink, but I do know failure to reject aberrant behavior only validates the behavior. You can look anywhere, from politicians spewing the most hateful diatribes without challenge to the last pantifa milkshake rally in PDX. Unfortunately I'm ready to punch noses.

The answer is simple: genetic predispostion and environment. Poor impulse control runs in some families and is both learned behavior and in some sociopathic individuals has a genetic component.

The shooter in Vegas was very different than those of the past few days. Every inidividual is unique and has their own life history. As humans we seek answers and oftentimes there are not any. The gang violence in Chicago is not related to mental illness or video games to give an example.

Part of it is probably the breakdown of the "education" system. People can no longer rationally think their way through a situation. Brain short circuits, frustration appears, and they wander off still not knowing what happened

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:
I don't know about you, but my goal is to make sure my son doesn't need me.

I have friends who have been successful with exactly what you're talking about, and I can tell you without hesitation that if you're successful with your son in creating an environment where he doesn't 'need' you around, he most certainly will 'want' you around. Its really interesting how it works out that way.

quote:

Originally posted by ArtieS:

We are getting very good as a society of creating disenfranchised, lonely, angry people. God help us.

I believe that is one of your most brilliant posts.

Agree completely with ArtieS. And add that these disenfranchised, lonely and angry people feel no connection to others or empathy for them. All this makes killing others easy and in the process, being killed themselves.

quote:

...my goal is to make sure my son doesn't need me.

Spot on.

And I have every belief that you will succeed in this, Arc.

I believe the internet is just as responsible as parents. When I grew up, online didn't exist. Now even "grown ups" try to compete with other people online so imagine the kids, it's information and bullshit overload. I've always believed that people believe what they see on TV, and it shaped them. They never understood what marketing is, and how effective it is on them. Or that it is just a game of utter bs to condition your mind to this or that. And I have never seen mainstreaming as common as it is today. The be unique and go your own way mantra dies a little bit every day. Everyone is consumed with being like everyone else. Ever listened to young people speak lately? They use the word "like" in every sentence.

Outstanding thread. The wisdom here is deep.

As far as media being part of the problem - I grew up in the 60’s and watched the commercials about the various toys that came out just before Christmas. Remember those? Some great toys in those days. But I watched and watched and studied and decided what I HAD to have. They sold me. I NEEDED THAT TOY!
Now, the media sells their news, their opinion, what they think we should think and feel. We don’t get it at 7PM after the evening news, we get their indoctrination 24/7. Every day. If the listener isn’t opposed to their word, repetition makes it sink in. It sticks. Like I needed the toy, they buy it. Put them on the spot with a thought that requires some thinking and they are lost. They can regurgitate, but can’t think rationally for themselves.
Who is the “they” I speak of? Too many the youth of today, too many 30,40 and even 50 somethings.

Critical thought has become a rare personal attribute.