1) that's what guard rails and not driving like an idiot is for. If you spin out and you're going sideways, you're still going over the side.

2)

quote:

Originally posted by bobtheelf:

Most people aren't racing on mountain roads, and cars can't be engineered for niche cases. Build a niche car for niche cases.

Most automobiles are engineered to understeer rather than oversteer because it’s safer for the average, non-enthusiast. Enthusiasts, we want oversteer which is RWD performance cars are engineered for oversteer.

Don’t fuck around with tires. I’d just replace them all with a new set of one set is cracking. I wait for DT to have Visa card rebates in combination with my preferred tire company (Conti) offering one at the same time. They’ll be $100-150 at each and I can usually bag $250 in total rebates while getting DT to match or beat anyone out there.

Keeping the tires at proper PSI is essential as is parking the vehicle out of the sun and covered. If left out in the sun and in the elements 24/7, it degrades the tires more quickly. I rotate more often than most and keep the same intervals.

Your tires are the most important thing on the vehicle, and the most important for your and your occupants safety. Next is the brakes. Attend to both like your lives depend upon because they do.

quote:

Originally posted by Prefontaine:
Most automobiles are engineered to understeer rather than oversteer because it’s safer for the average, non-enthusiast. Enthusiasts, we want oversteer which is RWD performance cars are engineered for oversteer.

Don’t fuck around with tires. I’d just replace them all with a new set of one set is cracking. I wait for DT to have Visa card rebates in combination with my preferred tire company (Conti) offering one at the same time. They’ll be $100-150 at each and I can usually bag $250 in total rebates while getting DT to match or beat anyone out there.

Keeping the tires at proper PSI is essential as is parking the vehicle out of the sun and covered. If left out in the sun and in the elements 24/7, it degrades the tires more quickly. I rotate more often than most and keep the same intervals.

Your tires are the most important thing on the vehicle, and the most important for your and your occupants safety. Next is the brakes. Attend to both like your lives depend upon because they do.

Every oil change, here.
I didn't on my wife's Expedition this time, as my little Pittsburgh 'racing' jack wasn't up to lifting it. Need to invest in a HD jack & reserve the low-pro for the Midget.

Back when I first started buying tires, the protocol was to put the new ones up front. The tire shops did it routinely. This was back in the 1970s. Maybe that changed when radial tires became more common.

Have always put new in the rear when I need to replace one (gotta replace in pairs usually) but for the most part, if they're over 30k, I usually just replace all four if one gets damaged.

Especially for understeer, how much worse could the rear tires be relative to the new tires that they should be moved to the front rather than replaced? Around here, for 300 days, let’s say I don’t worry about hydroplaning. And what if dry/wet traction is actually better with the current tres than new tires?

I get the concept but seems like the specific details matter rather than just some general rule based on an assumption that new is better. What if the new are summer tires and the current are all season?

Tire manufacturers don't want you to replace tires a pair-at-a-time. This harassment is toward that end.

Yeah, there's a lot of variables and no universal answer. That's why it's not necessarily wrong to put the new tires on the front, but you're likely not going to get someone to do it for you, because corporate policy doesn't leave much room for nuance when it comes to liability.

So I left this post up to see what kind of discussion would result, and here we are.
I am left with lots of questions, mostly what is the purpose of tire rotation?
With today’s asymmetric tires they cannot be switched side to side, only front to back.
If Costco puts the new tires on the rear, the existing front tires will wear out faster; the ear ones will hardly wear.
But if you don’t rotate they won’t honor the mileage warranty.
But when the fronts wear down and I buy new ones, will they then put those on the rear?
At this point I’m convinced it’s all about perceived legal liability.

New tires go on the rear. This is pretty settled.

https://youtu.be/BaXXrKFJctU?si=pvfzaewitJiKTFyz

quote:

Originally posted by sjtill:
So I left this post up to see what kind of discussion would result, and here we are.
I am left with lots of questions, mostly what is the purpose of tire rotation?
With today’s asymmetric tires they cannot be switched side to side, only front to back.
If Costco puts the new tires on the rear, the existing front tires will wear out faster; the ear ones will hardly wear.
But if you don’t rotate they won’t honor the mileage warranty.
But when the fronts wear down and I buy new ones, will they then put those on the rear?
At this point I’m convinced it’s all about perceived legal liability.

I am left with lots of questions, mostly what is the purpose of tire rotation?
Even tire wear, if you rotate 4 new tires, you will not have more wear front to back.

With today’s asymmetric tires they cannot be switched side to side, only front to back.
Directional tires can not be crossed, follow manufacturer rotation procedures for others.

But when the fronts wear down and I buy new ones, will they then put those on the rear?
New tires on rear

But if you don’t rotate they won’t honor the mileage warranty.
Correct

At this point I’m convinced it’s all about perceived legal liability
Correct

The OP mentioned "ozone cracking". I read somewhere that tires can sit on the shelf for several years before they are sold and installed.
Date of manufacture should be on the sidewall.
I tried to look at mine but its been raining and my eyes aren't so good anymore.

At my shop we put them on the front unless the customer requests otherwise. We try to avoid directional tread tires because of the rotation issue.

I would have agreed with you, and put the new on the front. That said, most vehicles I have owned have had very different front to rear sizing, so rotation was never an issue.

The Jeep… it’s on some clunky ass 35” BFG’s that don’t like balance. I just rotate all five clockwise, but I do it quite often as the rear tires see a lot of wear.

quote:

Originally posted by iron chef:

quote:

Originally posted by yanici:
This is interesting. So, why bother rotating tires to keep tire wear consistent? Should we stop rotating our tires?

I've asked this many times and never received an adequate answer. If the tires w/ more tread should always be on the rear axle, then what's the point tire rotation? Should we buy tires in pairs as the front tires wear out, i.e., new tires on the rear and old tires on the front?

I believe the rears do not wear as fast as the steers. If we rotate them every 5000 miles, we will end up closer to the stated milage life of the tires.

quote:

Originally posted by sjtill:
So I left this post up to see what kind of discussion would result, and here we are.
I am left with lots of questions, mostly what is the purpose of tire rotation?
With today’s asymmetric tires they cannot be switched side to side, only front to back.



If Costco puts the new tires on the rear, the existing front tires will wear out faster; the ear ones will hardly wear.
But if you don’t rotate they won’t honor the mileage warranty.
But when the fronts wear down and I buy new ones, will they then put those on the rear?
At this point I’m convinced it’s all about perceived legal liability.

You certainly ask good questions Doc. Do your Honda a favor and just get 4 new. Rotate them on schedule. Also, if you are concerned about rotation direction, get bidirectional. Those rotate front to back and corner to corner. Oh, and check your new skins manufacture dates on the side walls before buying them. You don't want years old shelf sitters when you can have them dated as just a couple weeks or months old.

Most cars are heavier on the front than the rear so tires usually wear faster on the front. Steering will also add a bit of extra wear on the front outside edge of the tire. Plus any slight problem with alignment may cause a bit of uneven wear on the front.

Regular rotation gives the tires a chance to "work off" any unevenness, extending the life of the tires.

Years ago with FWD cars, I always bought 2 for the front and then moved them to the back at 40-50%. Never rotated. With the advent of AWD vehicles I have switched to rotating every oil change.

I buy service packages at my local Chrysler dlr. $60-65 gets me full synthetic oil change, tire rotation and car wash. Not a bad deal

quote:

Originally posted by Schmelby:
The OP mentioned "ozone cracking". I read somewhere that tires can sit on the shelf for several years before they are sold and installed.
Date of manufacture should be on the sidewall.
I tried to look at mine but its been raining and my eyes aren't so good anymore.

Check those dates before purchasing them.

I try to carry my wheels in & do any rest at home. I’m a little of a ‘tire snob’ but I do things a little different at times. The shop would refuse me.

Right now I have slightly different sized tires on my truck, I’m in the process of going taller, 1/2”. No I don’t go down the highway in 4wd.

I also have two Blizzack Winter tires from a previous truck. They are a little old, so I’m trying to use them up. Maybe I’ll leave them on next Summer. I put these two Winter tires on the rear, 4wd Silverado.

Yeah, I know the ‘official’ opinion of doing so.

It’s been a number of years since I owned a car that you could rotate the tires, but I would much rather have control of the wheels that steer the front of the car, as I wouldn’t want to understeer into an oncoming vehicle or off the road and hit an unsuspecting pedestrian.