My cousin used to be a FAM he said he had a great cover story for passengers that wanted to talk. He was also a Baptist preacher so most didn't want to talk to him. He gave it up when he got tired of being away from his family.

Meh.

The story sucks, and the knee jerk reaction is off base. The article means “some” FAMS will be relocated to the rear. When they are on board a flight, there are way more than 1 on the team. While I won’t say the amounts, there is enough coverage in the front moving some to the back.

The airlines want the FAMS gone because they get more money for full paying customers. This is just pressure from the airlines to charge the government more to keep all the FAMS up front.

I don’t read too much into it, other than whatever ulterior motive the leaker of this story had for leaking it.

Real world impact- 0.0

That there's some expectation of comfort is silly. Hundreds, thousands perhaps, of people guard all manner of things all around the world every damn day, and most of them manage to stay awake, alert, and on the ball without even a chair most of the time. I'm sure the poor under appreciated Air Marshalls can suffer through a coach seat on a modern day airplane.

I am going to get flak for this.

FAMS have never stopped any major crime on an airplane. The whole idea is roughly akin to the FBI having a giant roulette wheel with all banks instead of numbers. At beginning of day you spin the wheel and sit at that bank IN CASE of a bank robbery.

I understand deterrence but the budget and scale of the Air Marshal Service is out of whack with reality.

It is also a ball busting job. This story was leaked because not sitting in the good seats makes a shitty job even shittier.

quote:

Originally posted by 46and2:
That there's some expectation of comfort is silly. Hundreds, thousands perhaps, of people guard all manner of things all around the world every damn day, and most of them manage to stay awake, alert, and on the ball without even a chair most of the time. I'm sure the poor under appreciated Air Marshalls can suffer through a coach seat on a modern day airplane.

There's a huge difference between someone guarding somewhere like a warehouse where one can stretch his legs easily and "make a round" and someone cramped on a flying tube with crap leg room with nothing to do but stare at the back of the seat in front of him.

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
I am going to get flak for this.

FAMS have never stopped any major crime on an airplane. The whole idea is roughly akin to the FBI having a giant roulette wheel with all banks instead of numbers. At beginning of day you spin the wheel and sit at that bank IN CASE of a bank robbery.

I understand deterrence but the budget and scale of the Air Marshal Service is out of whack with reality.

It is also a ball busting job. This story was leaked because not sitting in the good seats makes a shitty job even shittier.

No flak here, but just observation. If you want more bang for your buck, the bosses at DHS need to turn them loose and start working stuff.

You can't measure this by your parameters.

First, you can't say "we don't need a fire department because we have never had a fire" (then complain when your house catches fire).

Secondly, you can't get mad because an agency doesn't have a lot of activity, when they specifically have been told by DHS, and DOJ to not get involved in criminal activity.

Just observations, and not directed at anyone specific.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by 46and2:
That there's some expectation of comfort is silly. Hundreds, thousands perhaps, of people guard all manner of things all around the world every damn day, and most of them manage to stay awake, alert, and on the ball without even a chair most of the time. I'm sure the poor under appreciated Air Marshalls can suffer through a coach seat on a modern day airplane.

There's a huge difference between someone guarding somewhere like a warehouse where one can stretch his legs easily and "make a round" and someone cramped on a flying tube with crap leg room with nothing to do but stare at the back of the seat in front of him.

Yep. Deep Vein Thrombosis is the #1 killer of FAMS. And it is a serious issue that hundreds and thousands of people guarding all manner of things around the world every day don't have to face.

The FAMS are an agency that I know very well. There is definitely room for restructuring, and retooling of their core missions. I don't take up for the poor decisions made for them in DC, and agree that things need to change. But, you certainly can not compare them to any other job in the world because theirs is strategically different.

Hopefully FFDO pilots won't be sent to the rear, too...

Someone needs to sit up front.

I can't understand why such information would be released to the public. I frequently flew armed before I retired, as do most other federal agents, and discretion is critical. As part of the process all armed agents on the plane are notified where all the others are sitting. I have seen FAMS sitting in a variety of places. As an aside, you would be surprised at the number of armed agents of various agencies on commercial flights, especially on certain routes.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
Makes little sense to me. It also makes little sense to me as to why this is even public knowledge and being printed in a newspaper.

I think you tagged it... just because it is written somewhere doesn't make it true.

I haven't read the thread, but has anyone considered why they're telling us this at all? I'd take it with a grain of salt.

I take this as mostly a non-story. The seating can remain random anyway, even the front of coach is enough.

As mentioned, that ship has long sailed. They will be on to the next bag of tricks, not a 9/11 repeat.

quote:

Yep. Deep Vein Thrombosis is the #1 killer of FAMS. And it is a serious issue that hundreds and thousands of people guarding all manner of things around the world every day don't have to face.

Really? I would like to see the stats. How about compression stockings and drugs like Xarelto, not to mention moving about the cabin.

quote:

Originally posted by HayesGreener:
I can't understand why such information would be released to the public. I frequently flew armed before I retired, as do most other federal agents, and discretion is critical. As part of the process all armed agents on the plane are notified where all the others are sitting. I have seen FAMS sitting in a variety of places. As an aside, you would be surprised at the number of armed agents of various agencies on commercial flights, especially on certain routes.

This is correct for the most part. The one flight I took with actual other feds on I had no idea they were going to be there until we had to get hauled into the plane early to be intro’d to pilots and flight staff. I am sure the reverse was true where they didn’t know I was going to be there either.

On a side note some pilots/flight deck crew are nice or cool that you are there. Some can be total butt Cheetos.

Disinformation. The point is two-fold; put the notion of marshalls on the airplane fresh in the public eye, and say "you won't know where they are."

Some recent publicity went out, online articles saying "here's how you recognize a marshall," and this release is nothing more than a bit of publicity to say "we're watching."

This isn't a release of classified data. FAM's aren't in uniform, but they don't need to be to have a deterrent effect, and the occasional public reminders that they're on board and that they could be anywhere in the airplane doesn't hurt.

There may have been information pointing specifically to their positioning and the release may be little more than a seed to cause uncertainty.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:
Hopefully FFDO pilots won't be sent to the rear, too...

Someone needs to sit up front.

Lol. Those volunteers need to start getting paid too. But that’s for another discussion.

I spent two years in the 90's flying armed with the immigration service. four to five days a week on commercial airlines sucks. We always sat in the back. We were trained to sit in the back as problems were easier to deal with when they were in front of you. The only exception being when the pilots asked to move us to first class to watch their door and that happened a lot before the cabins were reinforced.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
It also makes little sense to me as to why this is even public knowledge and being printed in a newspaper.

Thank you for making the most important comment in this thread. There is absolutely NO reason for this information to be made public.

quote:

Originally posted by nojoy:


Lol. Those volunteers need to start getting paid too. But that’s for another discussion.

We are paid...to drive the airplane.

Why not allow LEOSA permit holders to fly armed for free o heavily discounted fares? Put the VOLUNTEERS of this program thru a certification course and have them pre-check for availability so you don't have 112 retired LEOS flying out of TPA at Christmas.

IF I were retied LEO and had LEOSA permit I would do it on occasion. I'd bet many would. It could help supplement the FAMS and keep fresh faces on the different routes instead of the same X number of FAMS that currently fly that route.

Also, I agree this shouldn't be advertised at all. Unless of course it is a disinformation campaign to throw off the terrorists.