I’d like to go out like Sol
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Link to original video: https://youtu.be/yOV8mBjHHYg [/FLASH_VIDEO]

It is the job of medical professionals to preserve life, not help take it. Want to off yourself? Do it yourself. I know we'll have to "agree to disagree" about it.

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:
"Primum non nocere."

Would you care to flesh that out?

Leaving people to suffer and die can hardly be a fair interpretation of the hypocratic oath. "Sorry, killing you would harm you, enjoy your medically enforced purgatory where you have no say in what happens."

People who are in pain and wish to end their lives should not be subject to the moral whim of everybody else around them. Particularly if those people are just voters.

Hey Grandma, we know you want to die, but we're going to make sure it's of "natural causes" for the sake of our own feelings.

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:
"Primum non nocere."

Would you care to flesh that out?

Leaving people to suffer and die can hardly be a fair interpretation of the hypocratic oath. "Sorry, killing you would harm you, enjoy your medically enforced purgatory where you have no say in what happens."

People who are in pain and wish to end their lives should not be subject to the moral whim of everybody else around them. Particularly if those people are just voters.

Hey Grandma, we know you want to die, but we're going to make sure it's of "natural causes" for the sake of our own feelings.

Nothing needs "fleshing out". No medical professional, and in fact, no moral person, can, should, or would, assist in ending a life. It really is as simple as that.

If you want to be the man who pushes the plunger on the syringe, then knock yourself out. You belong in prison.

If someone, terminally ill wants or feels the need to kill themselves, that is THEIR choice...so long as it doesn't involve anyone else. Step off a cliff, drive your wheelchair into swimming pool, ...whatever. You will answer for it, but it is your choice.

This, like many other issues, is something that libertarians like yourself don't seem to get. You are all about "FREEDOM". Yes! That's great! But, your freedom ends when it effects me. You folks don't seem to understand that your smoking pot, your assisted suicide, your "you name it", does in fact effect society as a whole and does in fact effect our culture.

Rarely is the case, that you can do something in the privacy your own home without effecting society as a whole...eventually.

Yes, sometimes, "There ought to be a law", is the right approach.

Just gonna drop this right here and exit quietly...

Suicide, assisted or not = Self Murder = Mortal Sin

quote:

Originally posted by erj_pilot:
Just gonna drop this right here and exit quietly...

Suicide, assisted or not = Self Murder = Mortal Sin

Jews can't eat bacon, so nobody should be allowed to eat bacon.

I’m a conservative to the bone. Don’t want waste away suffering from something like cancer, for what? To buy another 6 months or so, I’d like a choice.

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:
"Primum non nocere."

Would you care to flesh that out?

Leaving people to suffer and die can hardly be a fair interpretation of the hypocratic oath. "Sorry, killing you would harm you, enjoy your medically enforced purgatory where you have no say in what happens."

People who are in pain and wish to end their lives should not be subject to the moral whim of everybody else around them. Particularly if those people are just voters.

Hey Grandma, we know you want to die, but we're going to make sure it's of "natural causes" for the sake of our own feelings.

Nothing needs "fleshing out". No medical professional, and in fact, no moral person, can, should, or would, assist in ending a life.

If you want to be the man who pushes the plunger on the syringe, then knock yourself out. You belong in prison.

If someone, terminally ill wants or feels the need to kill themselves, that is THEIR choice...so long as it doesn't involve anyone else. Step off a cliff, drive your wheelchair into swimming pool, ...whatever. You will answer for it, but it is your choice.

This, like many other issues, is something that libertarians like yourself don't seem to get. You are all about "FREEDOM". Yes! That's great! But, your freedom ends when it effects me. You folks don't seem to understand that your smoking pot, your assisted suicide, your "you name it", does in fact effect society as a whole and does in fact effect our culture.

Rarely is the case, that you can do something in the privacy your own home without effecting society as a whole...eventually.

Yes, sometimes, "There ought to be a law", is the right approach.

So, some other person wishing to end their life, affects you? Ridiculous.

Medically assisted suicide, and laws surrounding it, are hardly casual or indulgent. They aren't some sort of decadence that only the immoral indulge in.

The reality, is that letting someone suffer in pain is not a moral act. Particularly if they do not wish to continue in that suffering.

quote:

Originally posted by erj_pilot:
Just gonna drop this right here and exit quietly...

Suicide, assisted or not = Self Murder = Mortal Sin

This is wholly irrelevant, as whomever wishes their ticket punched has either made their peace with the god of their choice, or has no such burden.

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:
"Primum non nocere."

Would you care to flesh that out?

Leaving people to suffer and die can hardly be a fair interpretation of the hypocratic oath. "Sorry, killing you would harm you, enjoy your medically enforced purgatory where you have no say in what happens."

People who are in pain and wish to end their lives should not be subject to the moral whim of everybody else around them. Particularly if those people are just voters.

Hey Grandma, we know you want to die, but we're going to make sure it's of "natural causes" for the sake of our own feelings.

Nothing needs "fleshing out". No medical professional, and in fact, no moral person, can, should, or would, assist in ending a life.

If you want to be the man who pushes the plunger on the syringe, then knock yourself out. You belong in prison.

If someone, terminally ill wants or feels the need to kill themselves, that is THEIR choice...so long as it doesn't involve anyone else. Step off a cliff, drive your wheelchair into swimming pool, ...whatever. You will answer for it, but it is your choice.

This, like many other issues, is something that libertarians like yourself don't seem to get. You are all about "FREEDOM". Yes! That's great! But, your freedom ends when it effects me. You folks don't seem to understand that your smoking pot, your assisted suicide, your "you name it", does in fact effect society as a whole and does in fact effect our culture.

Rarely is the case, that you can do something in the privacy your own home without effecting society as a whole...eventually.

Yes, sometimes, "There ought to be a law", is the right approach.

So, some other person wishing to end their life, affects you?

I didn't say that at all. If you want to swallow a shotgun? Knock yourself out.

Just don't make it legal for a medical professional to dose you with enough narcs to kill you.

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:
"Primum non nocere."

Would you care to flesh that out?

Leaving people to suffer and die can hardly be a fair interpretation of the hypocratic oath. "Sorry, killing you would harm you, enjoy your medically enforced purgatory where you have no say in what happens."

People who are in pain and wish to end their lives should not be subject to the moral whim of everybody else around them. Particularly if those people are just voters.

Hey Grandma, we know you want to die, but we're going to make sure it's of "natural causes" for the sake of our own feelings.

Nothing needs "fleshing out". No medical professional, and in fact, no moral person, can, should, or would, assist in ending a life.

If you want to be the man who pushes the plunger on the syringe, then knock yourself out. You belong in prison.

If someone, terminally ill wants or feels the need to kill themselves, that is THEIR choice...so long as it doesn't involve anyone else. Step off a cliff, drive your wheelchair into swimming pool, ...whatever. You will answer for it, but it is your choice.

This, like many other issues, is something that libertarians like yourself don't seem to get. You are all about "FREEDOM". Yes! That's great! But, your freedom ends when it effects me. You folks don't seem to understand that your smoking pot, your assisted suicide, your "you name it", does in fact effect society as a whole and does in fact effect our culture.

Rarely is the case, that you can do something in the privacy your own home without effecting society as a whole...eventually.

Yes, sometimes, "There ought to be a law", is the right approach.

So, some other person wishing to end their life, affects you? Ridiculous.

Medically assisted suicide, and laws surrounding it, are hardly casual or indulgent. They aren't some sort of decadence that only the immoral indulge in.

The reality, is that letting someone suffer in pain is not a moral act. Particularly if they do not wish to continue in that suffering.

quote:

Originally posted by erj_pilot:
Just gonna drop this right here and exit quietly...

Suicide, assisted or not = Self Murder = Mortal Sin

This is wholly irrelevant, as whomever wishes their ticket punched has either made their peace with the god of their choice, or has no such burden.

How is it irrelevant when that is his beliefs?? You really should consider that it is more acccurate to say it is irrelevant to YOU!

quote:

Originally posted by recoatlift:
Don’t want waste away suffering from something like cancer, for what? To buy another 6 months or so, I’d like a choice.

Everyone always has that choice. It's when others are involved that it becomes much more "complicated".

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:
Just don't make it legal for a medical professional to dose you with enough narcs to kill you.

Hey, if you don't want to kill yourself, don't. If we make regular old suicide illegal, it could create a mess in the courts for people being interrupted by well meaning passers by, family, or law enforcement.

Medically assisted suicide exists for the particular situation of someone who wishes to do the deed but cannot.

Why the compassion of ending suffering is offered to our beloved family pets, but not our blood, that's a real puzzler. Especially when your relative can articulate their needs, and Rover really can't.

As far as not making it legal, well, it's now a states rights kind of thing, so Maine is a new destination for those who'd like to check out.

I'm not particularly interested in suicide myself. But I'm not going to sentence anyone else to an existence they cannot bear.

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:
I didn't say that at all. If you want to swallow a shotgun? Knock yourself out.

Just don't make it legal for a medical professional to dose you with enough narcs to kill you.

There are certainly many (perhaps most) situations where someone terminally ill would not be able to leave the hospital, get a shotgun and swallow it, yet be fully capable of making the decision to swallow a handful of meds given to them by an MD. I hope to have the option if in that position.

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:

quote:

Originally posted by erj_pilot:

Suicide, assisted or not = Self Murder = Mortal Sin

This is wholly irrelevant, as whomever wishes their ticket punched has either made their peace with the god of their choice, or has no such burden.

How is it irrelevant when that is his beliefs?? You really should consider that it is more acccurate to say it is irrelevant to YOU!

No, the person we're talking about here is the person wishing to end their suffering. That's who matters. They'll either be meeting their maker, or going to their hell, or turning to dust, it's their existence.

erj_pilot is free to not kill himself, in accordance with his beliefs. His beliefs should not dictate what someone else can or cannot do.

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:
Why the compassion of ending suffering is offered to our beloved family pets, but not our blood, that's a real puzzler.

Not a "puzzler" at all. Pets are just that. Pets. Animals. No matter how much we love them, no matter how much we'd like to anthropomorphize them, they are still that...not human beings.

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76;
If we make regular old suicide illegal,...

No need to make it so, it has been for...well...pretty much forever.

quote:

Originally posted by MNSIG:

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:
I didn't say that at all. If you want to swallow a shotgun? Knock yourself out.

Just don't make it legal for a medical professional to dose you with enough narcs to kill you.

There are certainly many (perhaps most) situations where someone terminally ill would not be able to leave the hospital, get a shotgun and swallow it, yet be fully capable of making the decision to swallow a handful of meds given to them by an MD. I hope to have the option if in that position.

And that is your choice, which I support...so long as it doesn't involve anyone else.

Squirrel away a couple of oxycodone a day until you have enough to do the deed.

I just do not believe that any man should be directly involved in the taking of another life (unjustifiably). Medical professional or not.

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:
Why the compassion of ending suffering is offered to our beloved family pets, but not our blood, that's a real puzzler.

Not a "puzzler" at all. Pets are just that. Pets. Animals. No matter how much we love them, no matter how much we'd like to anthropomorphize them, they are still that...not human beings.

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76;
If we make regular old suicide illegal,...

No need to make it so, it has been for...well...pretty much forever.

That was supposed to be "legal." As in, if suicide was legal, you could sue someone for stopping you, etc. What a mess that would be. Of course plain suicide is illegal currently.

So, you're not being compassionate to another living thing when you end the life of your family pet or other animal because it is in pain? You're just dispatching something not human? How high minded.

Of course I'm being compassionate.

It breaks my heart every time I have to do it, but if you don't see the difference between a dog and a human being, well...I guess you need to examine some things.

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:
Of course I'm being compassionate.

It breaks my heart every time I have to do it, but if you don't see the difference between a dog and your father, well...I guess you need to examine some things.

So, if your father was dying of cancer and in a lot of pain, and wished to end his life but for some reason could not... Not assisting him with his wishes is compassion?

But Spot gets the express train even though he can't ask for it, because compassion?

I doubt you actually think I'm confused between a pet and a family member, so do me a solid and don't play it like I'm some sort of dummy.

arc

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