I've never had the opportunity to "work remotely" since I exited the traditional "go to the facility" deal in 1990. That's not to say I didn't spend countless hours in my home office, but back then there was no connectivity to the level we have today, so what I had with me is what I had to work with.

Maybe I'm just a backward thinking old fart, but I think the gathering of people in a department in one place is good and fosters team coherence. When I last held a department managers position, I'd call maybe one or two department meetings a week to share what was going on
and provide information on upcoming things. I always felt that open communications, with the opportunity for back and forth exchange in a group setting was beneficial. We where a team, and it's hard to be a team when someone's sitting in their underwear and chewing on a banana. Those that disagree, okay, I know it's different today, but it doesn't make it better.

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Please don't reply to this because I'm not trying to call anyone out ~ I'm sharing something I'm just curious about...

I wonder how many people posted to this thread during their normal working hours?

For those that wrote a response during their normal working hours, has what they wrote matched their activity to be reading and posting to our Forum during their normal working hours?

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quote:

Originally posted by sleepla8er:
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Please don't reply to this because I'm not trying to call anyone out ~ I'm sharing something I'm just curious about...

I wonder how many people posted to this thread during their normal working hours?

For those that wrote a response during their normal working hours, has what they wrote matched their activity to be reading and posting to our Forum during their normal working hours?

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You leveled charges at anyone or everyone on the forum and expect to be covered by “please don’t reply to me because I’m not calling anyone out…”

What kind of a silly self-righteous grenade are you trying to lob into my thread?

I think your question is somewhat presumptuous and leading. As a salaried exempt, I'm paid to get a job done. Sometimes that means working 24x7 outside of eating and sleeping. Sometimes that means just attending some meetings during the day. Meetings generally happen during the day between 7am and 6pm. And then if I have work, I do them outside those hours unless I have have meeting free slots w/in those hours.

For me, any given hour could be a working hour. Or it could be some much needed time to decompress. Working hours is not '9 to 5' for me. Working for a global company with teams everywhere means sometimes meetings in mornings (europe), in the day (america), in the late afternoon / evenings (asia). And doing individual work in between. Since I work remotely now, I work on weekends as well if necessary (which is frequent). This is my norm. So, yes, I will do non-work things during 'working hours' as hours are fungible to me.

I work more than 40 hours a week for a salary that assumes only 40 hours a week. So, I do my job and don't need artificial rules that actually hinder productivity, not enhance it.

quote:

Originally posted by sleepla8er:
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Please don't reply to this because I'm not trying to call anyone out ~ I'm sharing something I'm just curious about...

I wonder how many people posted to this thread during their normal working hours?

For those that wrote a response during their normal working hours, has what they wrote matched their activity to be reading and posting to our Forum during their normal working hours?

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You post a question and request to not reply? Anyhow I spend the same or more time farting around the internet on site as I do at home.

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
Musk is a pretty smart guy. He is ordering his employees back to work at Tesla. The right employee with the right job can work remotely. That is a rarity.
Lazy undisciplined people who need supervision simply cannot work remotely.

"To be super clear" I heard the 2nd email subject line in Elon's voice.

The 20 percent either retired, quit or gave up. No going back now


20 percent of your employees shoulder 80 percent of the responsibility and work. Most of your business is taken care of by a small minority of your employees. They're the floor leaders, the ones who know what to do and often just take care of things.

https://www.americanexpress.co...to-your-employees-1/

quote:

Originally posted by Veeper:

You leveled charges at anyone or everyone on the forum and expect to be covered by “please don’t reply to me because I’m not calling anyone out…”

What kind of a silly self-righteous grenade are you trying to lob into my thread?

Hi Veeper,
I'm sorry for how my curiosity came across, my statement is sincere. I am not trying to toss a grenade toward you or anyone else.


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^^^I believe 'sleepla8er' was merely asking a rhetorical question here, and though somewhat in-artfully worded, was just intending for the reader to ponder/reflect on how 'diligent' we all may be with our time when 'on the clock' and/or how that aligns with what one may have posted, regardless of whether one is 'working' remote or in the office. Just Sayin'

This isn't the general public. But here, I'd be surprised if every member is not dedicated and diligent in their job, pulling more than their weight, and contributing more than they earning.

The question shouldn't have been suggestive of our diligence while 'on the clock' but rather why we feel compelled to work even when 'off the clock.'

I know no malice was intended but the question, to me, was still somewhat offensive.

As a salaried worker, I can safely say (and have the stats to back it up) that I produce more now, for a number of factors - not least of which I don’t have to take full sick days now.

I even volunteer hours for my employer, as a sign of gratitude for not forcing me (when it could very well do it) to commute two hours a day.

…and I’m not using their electricity, heating, housekeeping, rent etc.

It’s a win-win, if you have good work ethics.

I'm no longer doing this, but most of my working life was in software development. Office environment was usually counter-productive, although when I was at Bell Labs, we had small offices, one or two people per office, and we could close the door. That was a decent working environment.

Every other place that I worked, we were in cubicle farms, where there were constant distractions. Phones ringing, conversations, you name it, the impact on ability to concentrate was horrible.

I was much more productive when I could work from home, than I was when immersed in the cubicle environment.

When I had to work at the office, there were times when I moved my hours, working from very early in the morning (middle of the night) until maybe 10:00 am, or I would come in very late in the afternoon to start an eight or ten hour shift. Either way, I could have an hour or two of overlap to touch base with others on a project, but have a quiet environment for most of my shift.

When I worked in IT at cubicle farms, everything you've read in Dilbert proved to be true. Loud conversations, random interruptions, phone conversations, gossip, and people munching on potato chips across the day. Younger people wear headphones at work with loud music so they can do work and many realize they are ruining their hearing. Add to this a commute of 1.5 hours each way and then people wonder why there are issues getting work done.

Some companies have created a 'work from home' culture that works. People are productive, work hard, but they have a life as well. The company benefits by being able to hire anyone across the USA instead of within driving distance of some office. Some companies have no office and things work better than ever.

There are interesting variations of 'work from home' companies. Some allow it quietly or even advertise it, but in reality the people in the office are the only ones promoted or favored. Some companies abuse the remote people by asking them to work extra hours in the evening or weekend, be on-call, and more since they're right at 'their office'.

The biggest change I've seen from the trend where more people work from home? Employees are judged more on what they accomplish. There is still politics and social games, but it's less important.

I work for myself and answer to no one. I have my own goals and, while don't hit them every week, over months or the year, I'm usually about there. I make more than I ever did as a W2 guy and, while I work weird hours and whenever I want, it's well under 40 hrs. per week. I was at 50% of my goal for the week until 4:30 today and I hit 100%. It's a weird business. But if I were a boss with employees, as long as they were hitting their goals, I couldn't care less if they worked two hours or 80 hours per week. Actually, I'd be concerned about a business plan that set goals that took more than 40 hrs/week to hit. I have some co-workers, not per se, but friends in the same biz, who sometimes seem lazy or obnoxious. But there is no disputing their sales numbers. And that's really all that matters. My first sales job's motto was, "Your review is your W2." Now it's my 1099s, but same concept.

I don't think it's prosperous in at least 80% of its cases. In my experience being prosperous is the exception Not the rule.

- Working in the office from day 1 I spend 1-3 hours a day in online meetings with remote workers going over things. The meetings are chaotic, noisy and confusing.
- Sitting in these meetings it's amazing no one's ontime, prepared, follows up or finishes on time.
- We've lost a ton of test equipment, physical hardware and spend a fortune on shipping.

If you lower your expectations far enough you'll meet them some of the time.

I've been working from home for over two years. But before that I worked "remotely" when traveling on business up to 50% of my time. Work needs to get done, no matter where you are.

My work team used to work together on large projects, but now we mostly work on different things.

I have to be available for meetings from 7am to around 5pm daily. Not every day, but that is when most occur. I also have evening meetings with Asia and Australia due to the time zone differences. There is no point in my sitting in an office in a cube attending Zoom meetings with people all over the place.

We have companywide instant messaging via Teams (previously Skype for Business) so you can see when people are online and interact informally. I think because my company already had a culture of using this kind of tool going way back, the transition to working at home was more feasible.

That said, I am able to do this because I spent a decade traveling all over the world. and going to all the places I support and meeting people in person. Just a few weeks ago I went to two facilities in the UK and met some old friends, but also got to meet a bunch of new people. And just a week of that is enough to facilitate working with them much better in the future. A week in India in 2017 had the same effect - connections that I now rely on.

I have no idea how a new employee, or a new exec especially, that starts remote can ever get to where they need to be. Big difference.

Ah yes, meetings...

Where the minutes are kept and the hours are lost.

Years ago I had a manager that I told people was a professional meeting atendee as that's about all he ever did that I was aware of.

He got in a small plane wreck in France and I became the acting Manager of the section.

I started getting invites to meetings all day long, same as he did. When I got them, I'd call them and say "what do you need from our Engineering Section?" and they'd say "nothing".

Then I'd say, "what are you presenting that my Engineering section needs to know" and they'd say "nothing".

Then I'd say that I wouldn't be attending. Got my Manager's job down to around a half hour a day since I didn't go to meetings unless there was a need. I became a legend among the other managers and they talked about it for years.

The worst part is many informal interactions have to become scheduled meetings. People cannot send a text or make a phone call anymore.

And a 1/2 hour meeting is useless and I remind people not to schedule them. By the time everyone is in the meeting, and you actually get anything done, you are past the 1/2 hour mark. If it isn't worthy of 1 hour slot, call, text or instant message.

quote:

Originally posted by Lefty Sig:
The worst part is many informal interactions have to become scheduled meetings. People cannot send a text or make a phone call anymore.

And a 1/2 hour meeting is useless and I remind people not to schedule them. By the time everyone is in the meeting, and you actually get anything done, you are past the 1/2 hour mark. If it isn't worthy of 1 hour slot, call, text or instant message.

A Manager I worked for years ago had a fix for that. If a meeting started at 10AM, he locked the door at 1 second after 10AM. Then the meeting started and all action items were assigned to people who hadn't been to the meeting on time and were outside the door.

It fixed the latecomers after one time.

When I worked at Amex, we all lived in cube farms. But for meetings we had to book meeting rooms well in advance. And those things were booked solid, from dawn to dusk and without a minute of free time. When I went there for my first interview and we got done, when we walked out of the meeting room, there was a line of very irritated looking people standing along the wall, waiting to get in there. Gawd, never again.