Anyone following the toxic chemical train derailment, burn-off? What a fucking mess. Looks like the plum of toxic chemicals is just hanging there in some older videos from a day ago or so. I assume it's drifting along north based on the Windy map but it'll shift west today so we'll get a heaping lung full until it stops burning. I can't seem to get any good intel on IF that's stopped yet, or WHEN it will be expected to stop burning. You'd think they'd limit the amount of that stuff they'd run on any one train. But I guess you'd be wrong.

Mark123 -- It looks like it's floating up your way. Be careful!

There was a major CSX train derailment in Miamisburg Oh in 1986 that released a toxic plume and resulted in evavcuation of the entire city. You see these trains transiting populated areas every day without thinking about the toxic stuff they are carrying. Methylethylbadshit is scary. Hope they got evacuations done in time.

About an hour South of me.
Haven't really followed it to much.

Rouge I am in c bus. Where you at?

Greta must be having a panic attack over this. A toxic chemical spill that they burn off?

The chemicals that are causing alarm are vinyl chloride and phosgene gas. Very bad stuff.

The train derailed because of a bad wheel bearing and the question is why didn't automated systems catch that it was going bad.

That's for another day but those two chemicals are causing a lot of anxiety and rightfully so.

quote:

vinyl chloride and phosgene gas.

I looked both up in the NIOSH Pocket Guide to Chemical Hazards. In the incident command world for the petrochemical industry, this pocket guide is viewed as a very hand resource for setting PPE standard for responders, buffers for the public, etc.

Phosgene is 0.2 PPM in 15 minutes, and vinyl chloride is no detectable levels due to being carcinogen. In typical gov't fashion, OSHA limits are of course different from NIOSH limits.

quote:

phosgene gas

A Chemical Weapons Convention Schedule III chemical.

One that shortly will no longer be produced domestically.

Google this term:
B.L.E.V.E.
Boiling
Liquid
Expanding
Vapor
Explosion.
It a train derailment tank car scary situation.
I was in Dayton during the 86 derailment in Miamisburg. As part of the aftermath, my Dept stepped up its Haz Mat Training. We were told your most vital piece of first response gear was a pair of binoculars. Use them before you approach burning train derailments.

My brother does Hazmat. He said if people knew what chemicals were in the tanker cars they would be very frightened. He was surprised these spills did not happen more frequently.

It's crazy how they run so much on one train. Escalates the Impact/risk IMO.

Edit: I'm convinced I can smell it. I'm ~35 miles west northwest.

quote:

Originally posted by Dakor:

quote:

Originally posted by Flashlightboy:
The chemicals that are causing alarm are vinyl chloride and phosgene gas.

Please provide your references specifically for Phosgene. No way they will be doing a controlled release of that. Vinyl chloride is NOTHING compared to the hazard of Phosgene so I want references.

https://www.post-gazette.com/l...stories/202302070109

"According to the United States Department of Labor OSHA regulations, it has a “pleasant odor” at high concentrations. When burned, it decomposes into various gasses, potentially including hydrogen chloride and trace amounts of phosgene."

Phosgene might be produced in trace amounts but the "controlled" portion of the burn will probably include heavy saturation with water (preferably mixed with a low concentration of ammonium hydroxide), which would help break down any trace phosgene into HCL / CO2 and the ammonia converting it directly into even less harmful urea.

Specifics matter a great deal in these matters and Hazmat personnel need to choose their words carefully or let true chemical safety experts relay details to the public.

quote:

Originally posted by Flashlightboy:
The chemicals that are causing alarm are vinyl chloride and phosgene gas. Very bad stuff.

The train derailed because of a bad wheel bearing and the question is why didn't automated systems catch that it was going bad.

That's for another day but those two chemicals are causing a lot of anxiety and rightfully so.

Many rail road crossings have electronics which monitor axles as they pass by. I have heard the equipment telling the engineer or someone which number axle has the issue. That doesnt mean the train stops. On the correct frequency all one needs is a nearby hand held walkie talkie to listen in. Its not unlawful.

I see some hellish quantities of dangerous chems and LNG tankers pass by around the clock within 100 feet. With a serious derailment I could see much of this little town destroyed. I havnt lived this close to the rail sinse I was a youngster. Tank cars average 180,000 to 220,000 pounds in GVW. That is some tonnage. One train may be moving up to 100 or more tank cars making up just half the train. A modern locomotive averages 432,000 pounds in weight. Someday soon I will live far away from any rail. Horns, miles away would be just dandy.

quote:

Originally posted by Dakor:
Phosgene might be produced in trace amounts but the "controlled" portion of the burn will probably include heavy saturation with water (preferably mixed with a low concentration of ammonium hydroxide), which would help break down any trace phosgene into HCL / CO2 and the ammonia converting it directly into even less harmful urea.

Specifics matter a great deal in these matters and Hazmat personnel need to choose their words carefully or let true chemical safety experts relay details to the public.

When they lit that fucker off, there was no one anywhere close enough to spray water. It looked like a neutron bomb went off. There's going to be a lot of fallout effects from this that will be suffered in silence by those who ingest the chems. In a few weeks, we'll never hear another word about it. Carry on. carry on.

-- Edit to fix poor formatting that put my reply within the quote.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: r0gue,

From reading the posts, I thought they had phosgene in the tankers…

Much less of a “WTF?” After reading the article.

Our railway system lacks a lot. When I see the extent to which the Swiss inspect their trains it is evident. Railroads are vitally important and also yield considerable power.

Anybody have any clue what's going on in East Palestine, Ohio?

That derailment occurred a week ago, yet, as of this morning, Twitter is all, well, atwitter with stuff like this:





I guess I'm glad the winds here in S.E. Michigan are out of the west, today.

All I can say is that my immediate impression of that top picture- the column of gray smoke- it looks photoshopped to me.

And stories of animals dropping dead, miles away, sounds like bullshit.

If this kind of stuff was actually going on, you can bet your bottom dollar that our tabloidesque news media would be all over it.