quote:

Originally posted by Doc H.:I believe the conquerer-in-chief was subsequently dug up, hung in chains and posthumously beheaded by his fellow countrymen. Not specifically for those war crimes, but no honor among thieves.

Ah, if you are referring to the late Mr Cromwell, all that post-mortem unpleasantness was done to him becuase he had aided and abetted, nay, actively supported, the executionm of the King, Charles 1. It was his son, as Charles II, do caused that to happen, as well as having any of the surviving signaturees to the execution warrant of 1649 executed as traitors.

Ireland was originally invaded not long after the Norman conquest of England, hence the dozens of castles and people with Norman names.

quote:

Originally posted by 357fuzz:
Do you have a link Tac?

I would like to see and/or hear this. I have an interest in Northern Ireland as my great grandmother immigrated from there and am wanting to visit.

Thank you in advance.

Apolications, Sir - it must have fallen off.....

“Say Nothing; A True Story of Murder and Memory in Northern Ireland”
Patrick Radden Keefe

quote:

Originally posted by SevenPlusOne:
Why don't the British simply conquer the island? I have no sympathy for the bungling fools that are the Irish.

As someone of Irish descent and who got to see in person in Ireland just how badly the conquering/occupying/land stealing British treated the Irish for hundreds of years, that's a shockingly ignorant statement.

You clearly know SHIT about history.

How about I come to your town or city, take it from you then force your dumb ass to PAY ME RENT to stay there? Oh and any food you grow, I'm taking it for myself, fuck you very much.

quote:

Originally posted by tacfoley:

quote:

Originally posted by Doc H.:I believe the conquerer-in-chief was subsequently dug up, hung in chains and posthumously beheaded by his fellow countrymen. Not specifically for those war crimes, but no honor among thieves.

Ah, if you are referring to the late Mr Cromwell, all that post-mortem unpleasantness was done to him becuase he had aided and abetted, nay, actively supported, the executionm of the King, Charles 1. It was his son, as Charles II, do caused that to happen, as well as having any of the surviving signaturees to the execution warrant of 1649 executed as traitors.

Ireland was originally invaded not long after the Norman conquest of England, hence the dozens of castles and people with Norman names.

Yes, pity he died of natural causes. My many-greats grandparents, who immigrated from County Armagh in 1710, would have been pleased to dig him up and begin all over again.

quote:

Originally posted by MikeinNC:
Tac, on a side note, is there a book or website that might explain the Irish troubles to an American who is interested?

The problem is, where to start?

It all began, believe it or don't, in the 11th century....

So TBH, I wouldn't have a clue where to start looking, except to note that the arrival of Protestantism in Ireland from England and Scotland in the 16th C is to blame for much of the recent woes.

It IS a fearsomely complex problem, and that is the simple fact. Trying to find some account that has no bias in one way or another remains a very difficult task. the facts of the business are easier to address...more than 4000 innocent people were murdered by terrorist of one religious OPOV or another, tens of thousands maimed for life, hundreds simply 'disappeared', and literally BILLIONS of £££ worth of actual damage caused to commerce and historical structures in GB AND Ireland. One of the most unpleasant incidents was the remote-controlled bombing of a Remembrance Day parade in Enniskillen, and the worst of all was the huge car bomb in Omagh in 1998, which destroyed the town's high street, slaughtering dozens of inhabitants and visitors AFTER the so-called Good Friday Agreement Ceasefire was three years old.

quote:

Originally posted by TMats:
“Say Nothing; A True Story of Murder and Memory in Northern Ireland”
Patrick Radden Keefe

That's one of about a thousand good books on a VERY touchy subject all round.

Although I was an Army officer and member of the security forces at the time, my surname continually aroused near-instant distrust in a police force consisting 99% Protestants. It took a while to break down THAT kind of thinking.

And THAT was only the start...

https://www.amazon.com/IRA-Tim...Coogan/dp/0312294166

A good place to start. The IRA by Tim Pat Coogan

Ah, religion...

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
Ah, religion...

A common mistake to try and boil The Troubles down to Catholic vs. Protestant. It was Irish vs Brit, and they happened to have different religions. Religion was/is omnipresent but never believe it was the root cause. English oppression in Ireland preceded Henry VIII and Protestantism.

^^^ Religion actually has only so much to do with it. Plenty of Irish who believed in liberation were Protestants - Wolfe Tone, Charles Stewart Parnell and Patrick Pierce among them.

quote:

Originally posted by Longbow_06:
https://www.amazon.com/IRA-Tim...Coogan/dp/0312294166

A good place to start. The IRA by Tim Pat Coogan

Highly recommended.

I’ll add that a split occurred in the IRA in 1969 creating the Original IRA and the Provisionals or Provos. The Provos referred to the OIRA as the “Red IRA;” they were flat out Communists, obviously Catholicism was not important to them. Probably fair to say religion was more important to the Provos.

Thank you Tac. Appreciate it. Looks like I have some good reading to do as suggested by others here.

When I was in college in the early to mid ‘90’s we had an exchange student from Belfast. He really did not have a soft spot for Brits or cops.

I do have a question though. It may sound cheesy or even down right stupid so bear w/me. I have an acquaintance who is a full blooded proud Irishman. We were talking and got on the subject of me having blood flowing through my veins from Northern Ireland. He stated that “is not really even Irish”. What say you? Doesn’t really matter to me as I figured he was just “talking smack” anyway. You know, like guys do.

^^^^
Probably a bit of Irish poking as well as the British importation of citizens and royals into Northern Ireland to skew the political environment towards supporting the monarchy.

quote:

Originally posted by Augen:
^^^^
Probably a bit of Irish poking as well as the British importation of citizens and royals into Northern Ireland to skew the political environment towards supporting the monarchy.

Yup.

Chances are the young man from Norn Iron was a Roman Catholic, and therefore had little or nothing to do with the Protestant community, in spite of being a UK citizen himself. It's always been hard thinking of people born in the UK - remember that Norn Iron was then, and still is, one of the four components of the United Kingdom, who nevertheless are intent on blowing you to shreds with IEDs or shooting you from behind the cover of children playing in the street. Do you call them traitors or criminals, or maybe both?

I remember the day we buried an acquaintance of ours, a Royal Engineer Search Advisor [look up RESA], and his dog, who had both died when they walked onto a command-wire detonated IED in a hedgerow. He just disappeared, like you would with an estimated 500 pounds of ANFO going off where YOU were standing, but his sniffer dog, a beautiful girl Alsatian, was just blown about a hundred yards, more or less intact.

All we found of him was half an ear and his Royal Engineer belt buckle, so we filled the coffin up with sandbags and put everything in it together.

He came from Omagh, and his dog was originally a rescue pup from one of the Norn Irish RSPCA kennels - they were both as Irish as they could be.

He was also a staunch Church-going Catholic, as was his wife and family. His family had been supplying soldiers for the British military since Waterloo.

Not Irish?

Bollocks.

Thank you Tac. I am also sorry for your acquaintance.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: 357fuzz,

TMats, Roarindan, Southflorida-law, Rev AJ Forsyth, Ensigmatic, PASIG.
Are you guys Irish? I mean, you must speak Irish then right? Did someone mistreat your great great grandparents 400 years ago? Where have I heard this before?

I'm aware of Irish history going back to the copper age. It's hard bringing civilization to an uncivilized people, especially when they refuse to conform. The Welsh, Scots and Britons don't complain anymore. Neither do the people of India, Australia, Canada, and even the cry babies here in the US. The only production nation in Africa, settled by Dutch, and English people. The best thing that could have ever happened to North America, was being colonized by ENGLISHMEN. Look at the mess the Spanish, and basically every other European power made. The greatest connection you can have to someone is language, here we are, and we ain't speaking Irish Gallic.

So, when you start killing British soldiers (A NATO Member and closest Ally of the United States, Ireland is not), you are my enemy.
Why don't you go throw some rocks at some Paratroopers then cry about getting shot....like the Palestinians do. Remember, you're friends with the PLO.
Maybe you need some bomb making material from Lybia?
Or some guns from Germany in 1916 for an Easter Uprising?
I have no sympathy.

If any or all of you would like to settle this, I'd be happy to engage in personal combat with anyone of you, I'm off the middle week in November, my email is my profile, let me know. I'll even let you pick, swords or pistols.

quote:

Originally posted by TMats:

quote:

Originally posted by SevenPlusOne:
Why don't the British simply conquer the island? I have no sympathy for the bungling fools that are the Irish.

They did, 800 years ago. Oh, and fuck you

Well said sir, raising one in a Northwesterly direction in your honor momentarily.

Well, if we have sigforum members at each others throats about the Irish vs. Brits, or Free Ireland, concept, imagine those who are there and experienced it?

Touchy subject to say the least. The Brits brought them civilization, sort of like the Spanish did to the South American indigenous population in the 1500's.

I hope the Brexit fiasco does not lead to another round of Irish violence. But then look at the middle east. Or bits of Eastern Europe.

As the line in the Wild Geese goes, as President Limbarney talks with the Hardy Krueger South African Merc character; 'We have to forgive you for the present and you have to forgive us for the past, and together we can move forward, white man."

Good luck Tac. My great uncle, a combat infantry vet of GrossDeutchland from '39 -'45 told me "I hope you never have to experience combat or war."

quote:

Originally posted by icom706:
My great uncle, a combat infantry vet of GrossDeutchland from '39 -'45..."

Now there's a helluva story that should have been published.

(Sorry for the massive thread drift)