Tunnel vision. Parking the vehicle on the tracks was a bad move in the first place, but the officer was clearly more concerned about the threat presented by the vehicle and occupant(s) than a train or anything/anyone coming up behind.

We don't know what the stop was for, but clearly this wasn't a "routine" stop or arrest/detention. It was a "high risk" stop as shown by the firearms deployments and the initiating officer's statement about how the driver had failed to immediately pull over. Regardless, these officers failed to keep situational awareness in mind and let the threat behind them endanger themselves and their prisoner. Was it negligent? Certainly. Was it stupid, careless, or demonstrative of deliberate indifference towards the subject they had in custody? I'm going to say no. These officers could have just as easily been struck by the train themselves if the arrestee was still in the vehicle she was driving. Another offender could have driven up and attacked them from behind, because of their failure to continually check for threats from other directions besides the obvious one(s) in front (inside the vehicle). Working in a lightly populated rural area can easily allow officers to feel they're "alone", and the only threat/matter of concern (even when the danger is believed to be over), is the one that's in front of them.

I'm glad to see the arrestee survived and hopefully won't have disabling injuries. I'm also glad that this incident was captured on video, so other officers can learn from this incident.

it took her a long time to pull over.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by 357fuzz:

Wow. Please point out where I blamed this F-up on the driver.

I said you blamed her for where the cop parked, not for the overall screw-up.

quote:

Where this doorknob stopped put the cruiser right on the tracks.

The driver of the cruiser put the cruiser on the tracks. Not the suspect.

Then tell me Reeves and Malloy where you would put your cruiser during a high risk stop.

quote:

Originally posted by 357fuzz:
Then tell me Reeves and Malloy where you would put your cruiser during a high risk stop.

At some place where there's less risk?

I don't know, I'm not really supposed to be here. I just came in because I saw the donuts...

quote:

Originally posted by pulicords:...

We don't know what the stop was for, but clearly this wasn't a "routine" stop or arrest/detention. It was a "high risk" stop as shown by the firearms deployments and the initiating officer's statement about how the driver had failed to immediately pull over. ...

Reported road rage with her brandishing a firearm.

I think she may have been trying to toss it, but ended up hiding it, as they found it. (and that was where there focus was when the train showed up), and why she took so long to pull over.

I think had they not been so focused on the gun, they may have realized the train was coming.

Had they been more concerned with getting the patrol off the tracks as soon as the driver was secure, they may have avoided the train collision.

quote:

Originally posted by 357fuzz:

Then tell me Reeves and Malloy where you would put your cruiser during a high risk stop.

Hmmmm....



Oh wait, I know. How about anywhere else that isn't on railroad tracks?

Wasn't it Reed and Malloy? Not that it matters.

quote:

Originally posted by pulicords:

... Was it negligent? Certainly. Was it stupid, careless, or demonstrative of deliberate indifference towards the subject they had in custody? I'm going to say no.

I would have to say "yes" on stupid and careless. I understand why they had "tunnel vision" or whatever you want to call it, but it doesn't excuse parking on a railroad track. Even with their concerns about a weapon, they still shouldn't drive (or park) recklessly. What if they had hit a bystander in a crosswalk?

They should not be oblivious to their surroundingss, regardless of the perceived threat.

I’m just here to slap the donut from Para.

Wait. There’s donuts?

Would it be douchey to take the raspberry twist instead of the plain?


I’ll just have the raspberry twist. Whoever gets to it last will see a donut box, and be happy to find that there’s a plain left.

quote:

Originally posted by 357fuzz:
Then tell me Reeves and Malloy where you would put your cruiser during a high risk stop.

I'm not Reeves or Malloy, much less Reeves and Malloy, but I'm gonna say... hmmm... somewhere other than active train tracks, mebbe?

quote:

where you would put your cruiser during a high risk stop

I suppose that depends on the risk, so let's give it a quick assessment.

She had a gun. Somebody could have gotten shot. That's a risk. There are train tracks. Somebody could have gotten hit by a train. That's a risk.

Zero shots were fired, one car was hit by a train. Which was the greater risk, and why was one risk mitigated but not the other?

I often tell the guys working with me that you have to be thinking several steps ahead to mitigate disaster. If you're focused too much on one problem, you'll miss the other. That seems to have been what happened here.

Could they have pulled forward another 10 feet? Stopped 20 feet further back? Pulled closer and used the horn or siren to get her to pull up a bit more? Pulled the car off the tracks as soon as they had her in custody?

Did the train engineer make any effort to stop prior? Did they see all of the flashy lights ahead and begin to take steps to prevent a collision?

In 2021 alone there were 9,251 rail related accidents resulting in 5,725 injuries and 901 deaths.

quote:

Originally posted by frayedends:
I’m just here to slap the donut from Para.

Are you right or left handed? I'd like to be positioned to catch the slapped donut.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:
Did the train engineer make any effort to stop prior? Did they see all of the flashy lights ahead and begin to take steps to prevent a collision?

In 2021 alone there were 9,251 rail related accidents resulting in 5,725 injuries and 901 deaths.

He may or may not have made an effort to stop, but it would have been for show only, as he had zero chance of stopping in time.

https://railandreason.com/2017...0to%20stop.%E2%80%9D

How Long Does it Take for a Train to Stop?
According to the Minnesota Safety Council, (Minnesota Operation Lifesaver Inc.) “The average freight train is about 1 to 1¼ miles in length (90 to 120 rail cars). When it’s moving at 55 miles an hour, it can take a mile or more to stop after the locomotive engineer fully applies the emergency brake. An 8-car passenger train moving at 80 miles an hour needs about a mile to stop.”

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:

quote:

Originally posted by pulicords:...

We don't know what the stop was for, but clearly this wasn't a "routine" stop or arrest/detention. It was a "high risk" stop as shown by the firearms deployments and the initiating officer's statement about how the driver had failed to immediately pull over. ...

Reported road rage with her brandishing a firearm.

I think she may have been trying to toss it, but ended up hiding it, as they found it. (and that was where there focus was when the train showed up), and why she took so long to pull over.

I think had they not been so focused on the gun, they may have realized the train was coming.

My point exactly. They just engaged in a very high stress situation (Road rage suspect with a gun), and it's an all too human reaction to develop tunnel vision. After removing the driver, doing an approach on the vehicle, determining there was no one else inside, and seeing the holster (indicating a gun WAS involved), these officers probably didn't even recall that the police vehicle was parked on those railroad tracks. Again: This isn't a matter of intellect ("stupidity") or deliberate indifference to the risk presented to the prisoner. It's an effect caused by the stress of the situation they were involved in. I don't know how busy this rural jurisdiction is, but I wouldn't be a bit surprised if "High Risk" stops like this were extremely rare for officers in this area to experience.

The failure of the suspect/driver to stop for the officer that initially observed her increased the stress levels for him and responding backup to a major degree. The adrenaline dump they all experienced, resulted in a number of physiological responses including tunnel vision. It's one of the reasons we're taught to scan our surroundings after using deadly force.

While I'm sure there will be a civil settlement concerning the injuries incurred by the arrestee, understanding how this situation occurred and learning from it is far more beneficial than simply describing the officers as dumb or inattentive. They could all have been intelligent, well trained, and respected for their work ethic, but people (even well trained) are injured or killed due to susceptibility to tunnel vision every year. That includes very smart cops.

quote:

Originally posted by Flash-LB:

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:
Did the train engineer make any effort to stop prior? Did they see all of the flashy lights ahead and begin to take steps to prevent a collision?

In 2021 alone there were 9,251 rail related accidents resulting in 5,725 injuries and 901 deaths.

He may or may not have made an effort to stop, but it would have been for show only, as he had zero chance of stopping in time.

https://railandreason.com/2017...0to%20stop.%E2%80%9D

How Long Does it Take for a Train to Stop?
According to the Minnesota Safety Council, (Minnesota Operation Lifesaver Inc.) “The average freight train is about 1 to 1¼ miles in length (90 to 120 rail cars). When it’s moving at 55 miles an hour, it can take a mile or more to stop after the locomotive engineer fully applies the emergency brake. An 8-car passenger train moving at 80 miles an hour needs about a mile to stop.”

My father-in-law was an engineer for the Southern Pacific Railroad for many years. He struck a number of people that were either walking or stopped on the tracks, inside motor vehicles. His attempts to stop were (as you described) futile due to the amount of momentum involved and he was forever scarred by those experiences. Intellectually, he understood that he couldn't have changed the outcomes, but it still hurt him deeply.

quote:

Originally posted by pulicords:
My father-in-law was an engineer for the Southern Pacific Railroad for many years. He struck a number of people that were either walking or stopped on the tracks, inside motor vehicles. His attempts to stop were (as you described) futile due to the amount of momentum involved and he was forever scarred by those experiences. Intellectually, he understood that he couldn't have changed the outcomes, but it still hurt him deeply.

My Father and brother both retired from the Alaska Railroad and that's how I knew about the stopping times. I just posted the link for those who didn't believe it.

They thought the train had already passed by after seeing the tracks


4.8 million dollars easy peasy.

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:
I think had they not been so focused on the gun, they may have realized the train was coming.

This sounds like a perfect warning for the anti 2A/anti gunners.