Damning article about SEAL DEVGRU (Team 6)

January 13, 2017, 05:04 PM

quote:
Originally posted by 12131:
Some jerk with an agenda. Can you imagine these armchair generals making rules of engagement during WW II? We would be speaking Japanese right now.

You mean some ex-teammates with an agenda?

The Intercept is by any measure, a liberal rag that 'thinks' its the beacon of 1st Amendment piety by exposing all .gov activity; Glen Greenwald is one of it's founders after all. What many are missing, is that 1) Guys are airing their grievances, providing unit insight and 'pimping the Trident' to the public (does it matter where it's printed?) 2) Guys are not getting reined-in by their leadership nor is leadership providing any oversight, guardrails or, direction. We all agree that war is ugly and things happen, however what we're reading and have seen is a organization that operates in the shadows and darkness but back home it contradicts itself by encouraging publicity via movies, books, celebrity appearances and games.

January 13, 2017, 05:07 PM

46and2

A great many problems associated with fighting wars is due to attempts to impose rules on how they're fought, in direct opposition to human nature and the realities of war itself.

January 13, 2017, 05:57 PM

Butch 2340

Not judging until Doc Steve comments.

January 13, 2017, 06:20 PM

MooneyP226

The douche that founded fleabay finances this "news" outlet. They have admitted to having fake news written by their staff in the past.

With such a provocative name as the one they took, I'm sure they are in it to provide fair, unbiased coverage...

January 13, 2017, 06:25 PM

Ronin1069

quote:
Not judging until Doc Steve comments.

Was Doc a SEAL? I'm aware he was in the Navy, but am curious as to why you hold his opinion on this topic in such high regard.

<EDIT>

There is NO way to write what I wrote above without it reading like I am trying to be an ass. I promise that is not my intent, just genuinely want to understand what would make him qualified to have an informed opinion on these events. <assuming he chooses to comment on the subject>

January 13, 2017, 06:28 PM

rduckwor

I suspect Doc Streve has some first hand experience and can shed some light.

RMD

January 13, 2017, 06:39 PM

Russ59

I read the entire article. The author obviously has an agenda and ax to grind with SOFs.

You can argue the details and events in the article, but the overarching theme is that many of these SEALS crossed the line and leadership and other SEALS didn't reign them in. I'm not saying that war isn't unspeakably gruesome, but I'm wondering where things feel apart and where atrocities became the norm, not the exception.

But I'm just a dude on the interwebs, my opinion is just that. I'll let the real soldiers take the lead on this one. It's above my pay grade.

January 13, 2017, 06:43 PM

comet24

quote:
Originally posted by Ronin1069:
quote:
Not judging until Doc Steve comments.

Was Doc a SEAL? I'm aware he was in the Navy, but am curious as to why you hold his opinion on this topic in such high regard.

<EDIT>

There is NO way to write what I wrote above without it reading like I am trying to be an ass. I promise that is not my intent, just genuinely want to understand what would make him qualified to have an informed opinion on these events. <assuming he chooses to comment on the subject>

From what he's talked about here Doc wasn't a SEAL and has never said he was. From my understanding though he was a Navy Corpsman who spent a good portion of his Navy career working with and alongside the teams.

January 13, 2017, 07:02 PM

Ronin1069

quote:
From what he's talked about here Doc wasn't a SEAL and has never said he was. From my understanding though he was a Navy Corpsman who spent a good portion of his Navy career working with and alongside the teams.

Perfect, thank you.

January 13, 2017, 07:23 PM

MikeinNC

quote:
Originally posted by sigmonkey:
If any man is unwilling to bloody his hands, and allows another to go in his stead, his voice of argument goes with him.

I'm with the Monkey on this one.
-----------------------------
As other's have mentioned...there is an ax to grind in this "report".

And as someone else said, and I have to agree with him, the frogs I knew were very, very interested in keeping things quiet. In everything they did. Including the operations.

January 13, 2017, 08:10 PM

Balzé Halzé

One of my Academy shipmates was a member of SEAL team six and actually a team commander. I haven't spoken to him in over five years, but I'll see if I can forward him this article and get his opinion.

January 13, 2017, 08:42 PM

jigray3

The only people I am willing to judge are the people willing to judge them.

January 13, 2017, 08:46 PM

gw3971

I don't care. If they had reason to kill people I don't care if they over killed them. Why, after the battle, would seal team six spend their time burying the dead? I say bullshit.

January 13, 2017, 08:52 PM

Gustofer

Kicking the head of a dead enemy? He's not going to make him more dead.

When dealing with these muslim animals, I don't much care how they get the job done, as long as they get it done.

January 13, 2017, 09:49 PM

feersum dreadnaught

quote:
Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
One of my Academy shipmates was a member of SEAL team six and actually a team commander. I haven't spoken to him in over five years, but I'll see if I can forward him this article and get his opinion.

I've known RADM Tim Szymanski for 36 years. He's a good man, and I'm happy he's running the SEALs.

January 13, 2017, 09:53 PM

RHINOWSO

quote:
Originally posted by JALLEN:
quote:
Originally posted by cmr076:
quote:
Originally posted by OcCurt:
The Intercept?

Sounds legit.

Sofrep Radio (which is run by all SEAL and tier 1 guys) has talked about this, which lends some credibility in my opinion... With that being said, I have a hard time asking these guys to kill on our behalf, then judging and condemning them for the way they do it.

That is run by Brandon Webb who is a self promoter par excellence. He had some questionable stuff going on a few years back.

Traditionally, the teams were very shy about publicity. The team spaces at the Amphib Base when I was there didn't even have signs. If you didn't know who they were, you wouldn't know who they were. That attitude held for decades, and I believe still does among the older ones.

I recall my bil saying the ideal standard was an op that nobody knew you'd been anywhere around. Sneak in, grab whatever it was you had been sent to get, and disappear, like it never even happened. If you had to fire your weapon, something had really been FUBARed.

The old SEALs called it "pimping the Budweisser" which was especially disfavored. Now guys are wearing the Tridents (as they are now called) on their suit jackets, and seldom miss a chance to show off, write books, appear on TV, do movie deals, start businesses promoting their status. It was part of the deal that you did not expect, and certainly did not seek, recognition for your activities, avoided it, actually.

In the minds of many, that poses a threat to their mission and effectiveness. Completing the op as ordered, as quietly as possible, was the only consideration. Now, you have to worry about what you wear, what you carry, who you are with, what you say, so you come off ok in the book and movie later, or in the investigation. There are certainly many stories, spellbinding, heroic, fascinating about many of their activities, but they ought not be told.

Worse, since everything is secret, there is ordinarily no satisfactory way to corroborate, verify, test, their assertions.

Look at the literature so far. One guy writes a book that turns out is substantially fiction. Another writes a book that contradicts it, and it might as well be fiction, or "made for TV" so there is a third version of the actual straight skinny. Chris Kyle and Jesse Ventura seem to have been in a lying contest. What about Marcus Lattrell? Is his story true, accurate, edited for marketing purposes? One has to wonder.

The "quiet professional's" mantra appears to be dead.

January 13, 2017, 10:02 PM

kpuscg04

quote:
Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
One of my Academy shipmates was a member of SEAL team six and actually a team commander. I haven't spoken to him in over five years, but I'll see if I can forward him this article and get his opinion.

I didn't realize he made it to DEVGRU. We truly do end up everywhere.

January 13, 2017, 10:04 PM

sigfreund

I’ve seen “quiet professionals” mentioned a couple of times recently, and I must chime in with my observation that that’s how members of Delta refer to themselves—and specifically in contrast to the SEALs. Even then there have been an exception or two, most notably by Thomas Greer, a.k.a. Dalton Fury, who wrote Kill Bin Laden and a few fictional (and improbable, but enjoyable) accounts of Delta operations. He claimed that although his nonfiction account of the first attempts to track down Bin Laden was vetted and approved for publication by the appropriate authorities, he was largely ostracized by his former comrades as a result.

I definitely agree that the SEALs these days are anything but “quiet”—or at least there are enough exceptions to make them the most well-known “secret” operations organization ever.

January 13, 2017, 11:25 PM

jljones

quote:
Originally posted by comet24:
quote:
Originally posted by Ronin1069:
quote:
Not judging until Doc Steve comments.

Was Doc a SEAL? I'm aware he was in the Navy, but am curious as to why you hold his opinion on this topic in such high regard.

<EDIT>

There is NO way to write what I wrote above without it reading like I am trying to be an ass. I promise that is not my intent, just genuinely want to understand what would make him qualified to have an informed opinion on these events. <assuming he chooses to comment on the subject>

From what he's talked about here Doc wasn't a SEAL and has never said he was. From my understanding though he was a Navy Corpsman who spent a good portion of his Navy career working with and alongside the teams.

Doc spent a dozen or so years deploying out of that command in particular. He most certainly has a lot of insight from that command, but he rarely shares anything, and certainly nothing that isn't common knowledge.