quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
To my complete non-expert eyes, that eventual ejection looked prudent. The way the aircraft was headed, nose down and uncontrollably rotating around on its side, I was expecting the plane to flip over.

Being trapped in an upside down crashed aircraft with no means to open the canopy would be a Very Bad Day, especially with the risk of a fire.

Yep. That was my take on this

Pilot was like "I'm outta here before this SOB flips over, squashes me like a bug and catches on fire"

I read that the Soviet VTOL aircraft (Yak-38 Forgers) had 'auto-eject' systems, to eject the pilot when the aircraft reached a certain point of no return. Of course, the Yak was garbage, even compared to the 40 yr old Harrier. . . I don't know if any US planes (or the F-35 in particular) have such a system.

With modern systems and software capability, I assume such a system would be MUCH more efficient than anything from the 70/80s.


Too early to speculate, though, but I'll put my dollar on mechanical error. It looked like the aircraft was still trying to fly while the pilot was trying to land, but that just might be me giving the pilot the benefit of the doubt. Could be either, both, or neither.

To my uneducated eyes, I don't understand why he wouldn't just kill all power when it started going sideways. Let the plane just flop to the ground at that point.

quote:

Originally posted by mojojojo:

quote:

Originally posted by corsair:
I remember hearing stories of the USMC's Harriers having all sorts of problems that resembled this. Wasn't unusual to hear about Harrier pilots making sure they took a few tools on a flight as removing a panel was a possibility.

I'm not aware of pilots doing any wrenching on the Harrier. Oh I've added water to the tanks before but that's about it. I've ne er known a Harroer pilot to carry tools to work on the aircraft though.

It's not as though you can carry out mid-flight adjustments, is it?

The ejection sequence went REAL fast, I did not see the canopy leaving because it was gone before the pilot left. A pal filled me in, there are flexible linear shaped charges that destroy and separate the canopy a millisecond before the seat rocket fires. More here:

https://www.luke.af.mil/News/A...ent-time-by-120-hou/

quote:

Originally posted by Sigmund:
...there are flexible linear shaped charges that destroy and separate the canopy a millisecond before the sear rocket fires.

Yep, it's called MDC (mild detonation cord) that shatters the canopy to allow the pilot to eject through it. They have the same system in the Harrier (the only drawback is you can't eject with the canopy open in the Harrier, which is why you keep the seat unarmed until you slide it closed).

The way the nose dropped & then the whole thing started to rotate, it looked to me like the forward fan failed, but something continued to spin on the vertical axis, giving the aircraft momentum. The computer obviously didn't have enough control to say 'my wheels are touching the ground & my forward fan shit the bed, how about I throttle down?'
turning tens of thousands of pounds of jet propulsion 90* off axis is a difficult engineering problem unless you don't mind a few failures.

I bet it ends up being a software problem.

Probably wrong drivers installed.

It looks to me like it's gonna cost us taxpayers several million dollars to fix that plane, or $100 million to replace it...

The F-35B does have an automatic ejection system. I believe in works when the plane is in VSTOL mode.
So it's possible that the pilot didn't initiate the ejection sequence.

quote:

Originally posted by mojojojo:
It's been awhile and I can't say I'm completely up to speed on the latest aviation technology, but I'm not aware of any aircraft with an "automated" ejection system (one where the ejection happens without aircrew activation). I'm aware of automated flight recovery systems that will automatically fly the aircraft away from the ground under specific conditions, but automated ejections?

I'm thinking that the pilot pulled the handle as the jet was about to dribble off the runway.

quote:

Originally posted by mojojojo:

quote:

Originally posted by corsair:
I remember hearing stories of the USMC's Harriers having all sorts of problems that resembled this. Wasn't unusual to hear about Harrier pilots making sure they took a few tools on a flight as removing a panel was a possibility.

I'm not aware of pilots doing any wrenching on the Harrier. Oh I've added water to the tanks before but that's about it. I've ne er known a Harroer pilot to carry tools to work on the aircraft though.

Watching the crash video again, I'm thinking that when the plane bounced the pilot pushed the stick forward to get it down rather than pull power (It's almost instinctive to do so) causing the nose to hit the ground first. After that he's along for the ride but still appears he was slow to get the power to idle.

Again, perhaps a mechanical problem and if so it'll come out in the investigation, but my moneys on pilot error.

Friend was a maintenance chief for the MAG, they had an incident at Yuma, where the nozzles couldn't/wouldn't rotate. Not sure the outcome but, lots of complaining on how much of a maintenance hog they were.
Another incident was in Saudi (DS-era), similar situation where nozzles refused to rotate, ground crew made calls back to Cherry Point and the maintenance depot to get input, while pilot got behind a few panels. Eventually they let the fuel run out has it hovered in-position and pilot punched-out.

Pilot error I would agree, there's a lot of planes now out in the fleet/world, the bugs in the software has been worked-out by now. Maybe they were working on something new...who knows, we'll have to wait for the investigation. The nose gear collapse over in Oki sure looked like human error also.

quote:

Originally posted by clang:
It looks to me like it's gonna cost us taxpayers several million dollars to fix that plane, or $100 million to replace it...

US government hadn't taken possession of the plane. It was still Lockheed property.

quote:

Originally posted by walker77:
...It was still Lockheed property.

And flown by an AF pilot. I don't think the AF flies the F-35B model, only USMC. Seems odd for an AF pilot to be doing a test or acceptance flight for a VTOL plane, but what do I know....

"An Air Force pilot who was ejected from an F-35B jet after it crashed during a test flight in Texas has no serious injuries and has been released from the hospital.
The pilot is an airman who was performing quality checks on behalf of the Defense Contract Management Agency, Matthew Montgomery, an agency spokesman, told Marine Corps Times Friday..."

Complete article:

https://www.airforcetimes.com/...d-from-the-hospital/

quote:

Originally posted by Sigmund:

quote:

Originally posted by walker77:
...It was still Lockheed property.

And flown by an AF pilot. I don't think the AF flies the F-35B model, only USMC. Seems odd for an AF pilot to be doing a test or acceptance flight for a VTOL plane, but what do I know....

If a pilot is in the test pilot field then they're not operational and their career path puts them into flying all sorts of models.

Looked to me like he lost the ability to reduce throttle or shut it down.

Looked like the the gas pedal got stuck. It probably seemed to the pilot that the event took an hour....
He went from pilot to passenger pretty fast. I think I would have punched out too
OZ

Faulty seat-pan to control-yoke interface maybe?

F-35 and LCS. Why my poor navy is NOT what she should be.

It was a malfunction, jet continued to run for 1.5 hrs until it ran out of fuel. The F35 has one of the lowest failure rates if any military aircraft along the lines of 1%. Much has been said about early production issues especially the bs story of it against an F16, it is now a formidable platform.

Curious as to what makes it a malfunction? Unless the pilot pulled the throttle to the cutoff position before ejecting the engine would continue to run (unless there's some sort of automatic engine cutoff tied to the ejection sequence in the F35 I'm not aware of).

It MAY have been a malfunction of the engine, fuel control unit, throttle quadrant, etc....but my money is still on pilot error. I can envision the pilot adding throttle to cushion the landing after that big bounce, letting the nose drop and then things just happen. You'd be surprised how quick it occurs and pilots, no matter how good or experienced, have been known to freeze up.

Again, it could be mechanical, but with as complex and unconventional as v/stol operations are, the odds are more favorable that something went wrong with the pilot than the jet IMHO.

Note: I don't mean to come across as slamming the pilot. God knows I made lots of errors flying the Harrier, just thankfully none that bit me like this incident. But as the saying goes, but for the grace of God go I.