There was a special on the news here in South Florida and there was a blonde lady (white) about 45 years old, that was interviewed and has OD'ed and taken to the hospital/revived by paramedics 17 different times. YES SEVENTEEN.

It's unbelievable, the drugs and idiots that take them.

quote:

Originally posted by Dresden:

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Shugart:

quote:

Drug use doesn't affect the user, it affects their family, their community, society. Drug addict often resort to theft, prostitution, robbery to fund their addiction since they can't keep jobs. the cascade effects hit our judicial systems, health care, insurance, etc.

All of that is indisputable. It also all goes away very soon after they OD and come to room temperature.

I think about my son's death every day. I'd have to disagree with you.

I'm very sorry Dresden; I lost a son to opiates last year. And yes, it hurts every day.

not Baltimore, but Pennsylvania

http://www.foxnews.com/health/...se-coroner-says.html

A Pennsylvania coroner believes that a 69-year-old woman who died earlier this month likely came into contact with a deadly substance while cleaning up her son’s drug paraphernalia.

Theresa Plummer, 69, died on Nov. 6, just one day after finding her son, Ronald Plummer, unresponsive in the bathroom, WJACTV.com reported.

Plummer became short of breath after cleaning up her son’s overdose and was taken to Conemaugh Memorial Medical Center, which is where her son was rushed just a day earlier. He died one day after his mother.

“This is caution for safety for anyone coming into contact with any type of powder substance,” Jeff Lees, Cambria County coroner, said, according to WJACTV.com. “You should use extreme caution and notify the proper authorities. My strong advice to any family that may have this happen to them is to call law enforcement to have them or EMS services come back and remove the substance or material that may have been left behind.”

quote:

A Pennsylvania coroner believes that a 69-year-old woman who died earlier this month likely came into contact with a deadly substance while cleaning up her son’s drug paraphernalia.

I'm not a coroner or a doctor. I haven't even been in Pennsylvania or met the people in this story.

The 69 year old woman who was cleaning up after the death of her son likely died from a cardiac event or some other natural cause if her death was not on purpose. The odds of it being from incidental contact with anything her son had is practically zero.

quote:

Lees said toxicology reports for both Plummer and Ronald are pending.

Which is why people like coroners shouldn't be making assumptions prior to knowing the facts.

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:
Narcan has given this round of heroin users a false sense or even a safety net, so they go for a bigger and bigger "high" and think that if they OD, a first responder with Narcan will bring them right back......

We've seen more ODs in big box restrooms. Seems the users know they'll be found quickly and revived.

a1abdj,

have to disagree w you. The risk to people who know how to protect themselves can be minimal. That risk increases greatly for people who are not trained or not properly protected.

https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/fentanyl/risk.html

Fentanyl: Preventing Occupational Exposure to Emergency Responders 30 Aug 2017

The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH)

Fentanyl and its analogues pose a potential hazard to a variety of responders who could come into contact with these drugs in the course of their work. Possible exposure routes to fentanyl and its analogues can vary based on the source and form of the drug.

Responders are most likely to encounter illicitly manufactured fentanyl and its analogues in powder, tablet, and liquid form. Potential exposure routes of greatest concern include inhalation, mucous membrane contact, ingestion, and percutaneous exposure (e.g., needlestick).

Any of these exposure routes can potentially result in a variety of symptoms that can include the rapid onset of life-threatening respiratory depression. Skin contact is also a potential exposure route, but is not likely to lead to overdose unless large volumes of highly concentrated powder are encountered over an extended period of time.

Brief skin contact with fentanyl or its analogues is not expected to lead to toxic effects if any visible contamination is promptly removed . There are no established federal or consensus occupational exposure limits for fentanyl or its analogues.

Investigation and Evidence Handling: Activities may include executing search warrants and collecting, transporting, and storing evidence. Evidence collection activities in the field have the potential to aerosolize powders. Also, law enforcement personnel who handle evidence in the chain of custody have the potential to come into contact with fentanyl unless controls are in place to prevent exposures.

Standard Safe Operating Procedures:

Do not eat, drink, smoke, or use the bathroom while working in an area with known or suspected fentanyl.

Do not touch the eyes, mouth, and nose after touching any surface potentially contaminated with fentanyl.

Field testing of fentanyl or its analogues is not recommended due to an increased risk of exposure to responders performing field testing. However, if detection and identification of fentanyl is critical to the incident response, develop an incident specific plan to perform the field testing in accordance with agency policies and procedures. Personnel specifically trained to perform the field testing should perform the field testing in the appropriate personal protective equipment (PPE). Never handle fentanyl or its analogues without the appropriate PPE.

Avoid performing tasks or operations that may aerosolize fentanyl due to increased exposure risks. Activities that aerosolize fentanyl require higher levels of PPE and should be conducted by appropriately trained personnel and in accordance with agency policies and procedures.

Wash hands with soap and water immediately after a potential exposure and after leaving a scene where fentanyl is known or suspected to be present to avoid potential exposure and to avoid cross contamination. Do not use hand sanitizers or bleach solutions to clean contaminated skin.

For specific circumstances such as :

Response to a situation where small amounts of fentanyl products are visible (An EMS response to a suspected fentanyl overdose or law enforcement operation where fentanyl products are suspected and small amounts are visible on scene)

For above conditions, recommendations for Personal Protective Equipment are:

- filtering facepiece respirator
- air-purifying respirator when on-scene health risk assessment is conducted

- safety goggles

- nitrile gloves
- double nitrile gloves when on-scene health risk assessment is conducted

- Wrist/arm protection: on-duty uniform with sleeves, sleevecovers, gowns, or coveralls.

Decontamination:

Responders who come into contact with fentanyl should immediately use soap and water to thoroughly wash and rinse contaminated skin. They should take care not to break the skin during the decontamination process and to cover all open wounds. Do not use hand sanitizers or bleach solutions to clean contaminated skin. All contaminated clothing should be removed and laundered, being careful not to disturb any areas of contamination. Shower immediately after a potential exposure


**************

for a situation where liquid fentanyl or large amounts of fentanyl products are visible, the PPE requirements are higher

(table at link)

Trump should import that shit by the damn container ship load and dump it in the inner cities. Not kidding. Kill every last shit stain that ingest this shit.

I have friends who are around this stuff all of the time. It's not nearly as dangerous as many proclaim it is.

I've also posted a few articles where professionals have either been quoted, or have written about it. They agree with me.

Odds of incidental contact causing death is extremely low. I'll wait for the toxicology report.

perhaps you should contact NIOSH and educate them

Do your friends handle the material w/o PPE ?

Are you talking about the pain medicine fentanyl dermal patches ?

quote:

perhaps you should contact NIOSH and educate them

"The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health, the worker protection agency, says it “does not have enough empirical evidence to provide specific guidance for protection from exposure during every possible law enforcement operation.”

The uncertainties should prompt prudence, not panic, said Temple’s D’Orazio.

“Everyone is extrapolating what would happen without a lot of scientific evidence,” he said. “But we don’t need to jump to the conclusion that a little drug on your skin means you’ll require numerous doses of naloxone and potentially die.”

quote:

Do your friends handle the material w/o PPE ?

They don't handle anything without protective gear, but that has little to do with the drugs themselves. They don't want Ghonnaherpesyphilis, or any other number of easily transmitted nastyness that these types of people often have and that they are 1,000,000 times more likely to experience than a drug reaction.

quote:

Are you talking about the pain medicine fentanyl dermal patches ?

No. I'm talking about all of these "mysterious powders" that everybody claims caused them to OD because they happened to be within 100 feet of them.

Here's one link for you. In it you will find a few emergency physicians and toxicologists that speak about it.

http://www.philly.com/philly/h...ts-say-20170630.html

I'm not saying that you should touch it, rub it on you, or sniff it to see if it's real. I'm simply saying that the risk of incidental overdose is so low that nobody should be loosing any sleep over it.

Here's another one:

https://www.statnews.com/2017/...entanyl-falling-ill/

"The American College of Medical Toxicology recently issued a position paper concluding that, based on what’s been publicly released, none of the recent incidents involving first responders is consistent with opioid toxicity."

I do read your links.

this is a similar article citing D'Orazio and others.

http://www.mcall.com/news/brea...-20170707-story.html

Toxicologist Stolbach added some context: "Yes, two to three milligrams of fentanyl would be sufficient to make most people stop breathing if it found its way into the bloodstream.

“However, fentanyl just isn't absorbed through skin into your blood quickly or efficiently enough to make this kind of dose possible from incidental contact. Fentanyl is absorbed much better by inhalation and through [mucous membranes] but we feel like these routes of exposure are much less likely with routine precautions and good common sense."

all of the NIOSH recommendations fall into this category

Depending on the situation, that equipment may range from gloves, safety glasses and a dust mask all the way to hazmat suits with breathing gear. "Fentanyl can be handled safely with proper training and equipment," says the DEA guide for emergency responders.

The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health, the worker protection agency, says it "does not have enough empirical evidence to provide specific guidance for protection from exposure during every possible law enforcement operation." The uncertainties should prompt prudence, not panic, said Temple's D'Orazio.

"such uncertainties" normally prompt a cautious approach

"Everyone is extrapolating what would happen without a lot of scientific evidence," he said. "But we don't need to jump to the conclusion that a little drug on your skin means you'll require numerous doses of naloxone and potentially die."

yes, but if a first responder, or anyone, is in a situation where they get unknown powders related to illegal drugs on them, and the experience the classic symptoms of overdose, then naloxone treatment would be prudent

Under those conditions, don't touch your eyes, nose, mouth where small quantities can more efficiently pass to the blood

so let's see if any new American College of Medical Toxicology recommendation for PPE are any different than the current NIOSH

Lost a distant cousin to an heroin/fentanyl OD last week. I did not know him but knew his father, who is my Dad's first cousin.

It is easy to be calloused about such things but all life is precious.

Handling and distributing and taking drugs in tiny doses is nothing new to drug culture, LSD is dosed in *micrograms*, and done correctly 99.99+% of the time. By this day and age many millions of humans all over the world have take many millions of doses of LSD with no long-term effects much less fatal ODs or other fatal experiences.

I am in no way advocating any of it, and most certainly nothing to do with Fentanyl, but as far as tiny doses go - LSD is *super tiny*, and somehow the deadheads and other hippies and other folks into it manage not to fuck that up for a few decades now. It must not be that difficult.

quote:

Originally posted by 46and2:
Handling and distributing and taking drugs in tiny doses is nothing new to drug culture, LSD is dosed in *micrograms*, and done correctly 99.99+% of the time. By this day and age many millions of humans all over the world have take many millions of doses of LSD with no long-term effects much less fatal ODs or other fatal experiences.

I am in no way advocating any of it, and most certainly nothing to do with Fentanyl, but as far as tiny doses go - LSD is *super tiny*, and somehow the deadheads and other hippies and other folks into it manage not to fuck that up for a few decades now. It must not be that difficult.

WELL, this DOES NOT seem to be the case with Fentanyl laced Heroin, and tons of people are OD'ing daily on it. I think the difference with LSD is that it's in liquid form and mixes with whatever else is the carrier (water etc.). Either way it's nasty nasty stuff. There have been several Police here and police dogs that have OD'ed while handling it, testing it, or busting a drug dealer and had to be administered Narcan. Drug dealers are not the cleanest people when they mix this stuff up, it's not like a real laboratory at Pfizer.

While it is easy to paint all drugs with the same brush & declare all of them "bad"; and while my heart truly goes out to all who have lost friends or family members to overdose and misuse; I would urge all who read & contribute to threads like this to pause for just a moment and think about the positive effects of ALL these drugs. It seems to be very popular these days to condemn all these drugs AND those who use them - and even the president has done this himself, hitting on the very drug that keeps my everyday pain at bay & keeps me OUT of the emergency room(fentanyl). I would suggest to you that this drug, used correctly, is not NEAR as dangerous as some would have you believe. And for those who insist on condemning and damning these pain-killing drugs out-of-hand, my hope for you is that you NEVER have any serious injury that sentences you to a lifetime of intense & prolonged pain. My experience is that fentanyl is the ONLY drug my doctors have found thus far that keeps my pain at a manageable level AND keeps me from being an invalid. And in just a minute, after my morning shower, I shall apply yet another fentanyl patch and keep on walking - much like I would had I never been injured. So Mr. Trump - while I admire much of what you do - PLEASE stick to politics and government and keep your nose OUT of the doctors' offices...... FredT

This is a pretty simple issue to prove.

You believe you overdosed, you were treated and transported to a hospital. The hospital draws blood and checks for the presence of opiates.

It's either in your system or it's not. If you experienced enough to overdose, it will be easily detectable for several days.

I can't help but notice that there are a lot of claims but zero blood test results. Why is that?

If this problem is as serious as claimed there would be plenty of scientific evidence to back them up.

Again, I'm not saying there's zero risk. I'm just putting the "looked at opiates and I overdosed" risk into the same category as lightening strikes and shark attacks (both of which are real, and backed up by actual evidence).

No doubt that this stuff is a real and serious risk to those who intentionally put it in their bodies.

Well said Fred.

What nobody ever talks about is that only a small segment of the population is truly at risk. A good 80% of people will never become addicted to opiates. That doesn’t translate very well to “for the good of the people”.

Fentanyl is really no different in this perspective than any other opiates. It’s just stronger… Roughly 80 times that of morphine. (Morphine is not all that strong understanding that has to be converted to Diluadid by your metabolism. It’s all a matter of dosage.)

Think about if you really want government in control of this matter. Look what they did the hormone therapy because of baseball… A true travesty. Healthcare should be between me and my doctor. Period.