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Things that keep me up at night - oil changes
April 08, 2021, 06:26 PM
IntrepidTravelerThings that keep me up at night - oil changes
I'm not even sure I can reconstruct the rabbit trail that got me here. I think it started by thinking about that unlikely dystopian movie about riding a train around the world during a permanent winter. Then I got thinking about how unlikely that would be. Not the winter part, but the fact that a train can ride around the world without having to stop. (No, I never watched the movie, so I'm taking some liberties with plot here.) I mean, wouldn't they need oil changes from time to time?
Then I got thinking about how boats travel around the world all the time. I mean, they leave port, and don't come back to port for months. And boats have engines too, right?
Then I laid awake trying to figure out how long a boat could run before it needs its oil changed. And how much oil does a ship engine take? Maybe that's the real reason why the Ever Given got stuck in the Suez - they seized an engine due to some not-mechanically-inclined executive or manager forgetting to schedule the Jiffy Lube appointment.
So, for a locomotive, or a big container ship, how often do they need the oil changed? How much oil? Do they do a "running" oil change where the old oil is removed while new oil is introduced? Inquiring minds want to know.
Or.... do I need to take my Ambien earlier?
Thus the metric system did not really catch on in the States, unless you count the increasing popularity of the nine-millimeter bullet.
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"Never go through life saying 'I should have'..." - quote from the 9/11 Boatlift Story (thanks, sdy for posting it) April 08, 2021, 06:34 PM
egregorequote:
How much oil?
I don't know, but it's gotta be a lot.
Consider that a man standing in a container ship engine's cylinder, with the piston at the bottom and the cylinder head off, has to look up to see out of it.
It would be interesting to know, if for no other reason than curiosity.
April 08, 2021, 06:36 PM
AKSuperDuallyI am aware of methods to change oil while operating. More common, I believe, is simply to add as consumption is a normal thing. Types of oils, types of engines, all require different change intervals. Much can be accomplished in filtration, and changing filters often can extend oil life significantly. When it comes to gallons and gallons of oil...I believe everyone uses oil analysis, either on site, or off site.
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"The trouble with our Liberal friends...is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." Ronald Reagan, 1964
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April 08, 2021, 06:37 PM
wreckdiverSorry no answers here, but thanks, now I will lose sleep over it
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April 08, 2021, 06:38 PM
wrightdFascinating question for sure. I hope a big boat captain or navy man or merchant marine will give us the answer. But, I can only imagine it's largely an automated process, to reduce the chances for a person doing the maintenance to make a mistake, unlikelike a lawnmower mechanic I hired once who shorted my engine a quart of oil and I didn't discover it until the damage was done.
Lover of the US Constitution
Wile E. Coyote School of DIY Disaster April 08, 2021, 06:42 PM
egregoreThere being no place to drain it, I would guess that ship engine oil changes are done by using an apparatus to suck the oil out and refill with fresh oil.
April 08, 2021, 06:47 PM
triggertreatOn board a ship a centrifuge to clean and analysis and additives to keep it in spec. Centrifuges are also used to dewater the fuel. Retired centrifuge tech.
I'm alright it's the rest of the world that's all screwed up! April 08, 2021, 06:47 PM
ch23701At the locomotive shop (railroad) we took oil samples every time an engine would come into our fuel pad. The samples were then sent into a lab for analysis. Depending on what the sample said it could have possible fuel oil or water or other contaminates in the oil system. Depending on how bad it was the leak or leaks would need to be repaired and the oil changed. As far as just changing oil on a routine basis I don’t remember us doing that. If memory serves me correctly the oil filters were renewed every 90 days. Oil level was checked every time it came to our fuel pad and added as needed.
April 08, 2021, 07:08 PM
Balzé HalzéWe never change the oil in our ship's main engine sumps, except during a major overhaul of the main engines. What we do have though are lube oil centrifugal purifiers which for the most part are constantly running. They of course require routine breakdown and service. Additionally, we are adding 150-200 gallons a month to the main engine sumps (each) due to engine burn, maintenance, leaks, and loss through the purifier. Our ship engines have an oil sump capacity of about 600 gallons each. Average a little over one to one and a half gallons lube oil per engine running hour burned.
So, we aren't doing oil changes in the typical sense, but we still go through a good amount of lube oil during normal operation.
These are medium speed diesels. Much larger slow speed engines like on the Ever Given have of course much larger oil sump capacities.
~Alan
Acta Non Verba
NRA Life Member (Patron)
God, Family, Guns, Country
Men will fight and die to protect women... because women protect everything else. ~Andrew Klavan
April 08, 2021, 07:12 PM
trapper189The Ever Given is powered by a two stroke diesel turning up to 79 RPM. <—-True Story
Two strokes use fuel as lubricant. <—-I really have no clue if this applies to ships.
Captain Ron says “Diesels love their oil like a sailor loves his rum.”
April 08, 2021, 07:14 PM
Balzé Halzéquote:
Originally posted by trapper189:
Two strokes use fuel as lubricant. <—-I really have no clue if this applies to ships.
No
~Alan
Acta Non Verba
NRA Life Member (Patron)
God, Family, Guns, Country
Men will fight and die to protect women... because women protect everything else. ~Andrew Klavan
April 08, 2021, 07:19 PM
trapper189I didn’t think so. 600 gallons. Ya know Mobil 1 has a rebate going on right?
April 08, 2021, 07:23 PM
saigonsmugglerquote:
Originally posted by trapper189:
The Ever Given is powered by a two stroke diesel turning up to 79 RPM. <—-True Story
"Aye Davey, you're redlining the engine at 80 rpm, a rod gonna shoot thru the deck at any time now"
April 08, 2021, 08:23 PM
bubbatimeThere are systems, Ive heard, that suck out 10 gallons, and replace it with 10 gallons of fresh oil. That way the oil is always in spec and you never need to change the oil.
The new John Deere lawn mowers run off this theory. They "say" that you never need to change the oil. You just replace the huge oil filter for $39-$49 (that is prefilled with oil), and thus, it changes enough of the oil, that the oil is always clean "enough" as to not oxidize or breakdown. I dont care for this expensive as shit system as I can change the oil and filter on an old tractor for less than $10 and it changes ALL of the oil.
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April 08, 2021, 09:19 PM
MikeinNCWhen I first joined the CG we had a 41’ utility boat that had two Cummins VT903 engines (truck engines) we changed the oil every couple hundred hours, but tested the oil samples once a week and did viscosity tests daily to fight against fuel leaking into the engine oil....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/..._Utility_Boat,_LargeMy next boat was a 110’ patrol boat
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...nd-class_patrol_boatand I was no longer a fireman(apprentice mechanic) but we had Paxman (British) engines the size of a f150, two of em....they never changed the oil but ran a centrifuge and tested the oil looking for break down and fuel and water intrusion.
When I was on WMEC-901
BEAR it had Twin turbo-charged ALCO V-18 Diesel engines, they didn’t change oil just filtered it and tested and added oil....those engines ran for four months at a time w/o shutting down...
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Legal BeagleI almost fell asleep before I realized I've never changed the oil in my Sunfish.. I'm going to take care of it right now!
April 08, 2021, 11:24 PM
jimmy123xquote:
Originally posted by IntrepidTraveler:
I'm not even sure I can reconstruct the rabbit trail that got me here. I think it started by thinking about that unlikely dystopian movie about riding a train around the world during a permanent winter. Then I got thinking about how unlikely that would be. Not the winter part, but the fact that a train can ride around the world without having to stop. (No, I never watched the movie, so I'm taking some liberties with plot here.) I mean, wouldn't they need oil changes from time to time?
Then I got thinking about how boats travel around the world all the time. I mean, they leave port, and don't come back to port for months. And boats have engines too, right?
Then I laid awake trying to figure out how long a boat could run before it needs its oil changed. And how much oil does a ship engine take? Maybe that's the real reason why the Ever Given got stuck in the Suez - they seized an engine due to some not-mechanically-inclined executive or manager forgetting to schedule the Jiffy Lube appointment.
So, for a locomotive, or a big container ship, how often do they need the oil changed? How much oil? Do they do a "running" oil change where the old oil is removed while new oil is introduced? Inquiring minds want to know.
Or.... do I need to take my Ambien earlier?
A ship like the Evergiven doesn't do oil changes. They run the oil through a centrifuge to clean the contaminants out of it, and just change the filter(s) and keep using the same oil. It holds A LOT of oil.