This is a very long but interesting article about medicine,surgery residencies, and psychological issues. I am just posting to link due to its length. It is worth the read.

LINK: https://www.theguardian.com/us...icians-mental-health

That was interesting and informative, thanks for posting.

And, I had forgotten that part of history where:

The training system was developed by William Halsted, a pioneering surgeon who worked at Johns Hopkins hospital in the late 19th and early 20th century.

Halsted battled addiction throughout his career, even as he revolutionized surgery by developing new surgical techniques, advancing anesthesia and promoting infection control. He became hooked on cocaine in 1884 while conducting experiments with the drug. Using morphine to help wean himself off cocaine, he developed a new addiction that plagued him until his death at 69. He became erratic and withdrawn, sometimes disappearing for weeks at a time. His oddities, though, were tolerated because of the enormity of his achievements.

“This man created a culture where you lived in the hospital,” says Michael Maddaus, a retired surgeon who developed a narcotics addiction while working as a professor of surgery at the University of Minnesota. “Part of the ethos of that is you don’t complain … You just do your work and shut up and have discipline to be strong and pretend you’re OK when everything’s not.”

^^^^^^^^^^
Thank you Richard.

It’s actually shocking how often this happens. My niece who works in ICU tells me about these quite often. One happened not long ago where the wife was trying to talk her surgeon husband out of the locked car in the hospital parking lot and he offed himself right in front of her leaving 3 kids behind.

You would think once you become a practicing surgeon the most difficult part is behind you. Not the case however.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: 1s1k,

I'm very glad I opted out of a medical career and went on an engineering path instead.

I see reasons to be glad every day, in fact.

Tough road.

I had no idea this was this pervasive. Maybe it was a good thing I couldn't pass organic chemistry.

I would’ve never known. Enlightening to say the least. Ty

“We all hide our grief, suffer in silence. The pain can be close to debilitating.”

sounds like a day in the life of a LEO , Vet w PTSD

I read "When the Air Hits your Brain" when it first came out and it was the first time I had seen the human side of surgeons and why they are so impersonal sometimes. It was a window into their lives. He explained as best he could the coping mechanism that he was working out.
Even though I bought the book, I read most of it while sitting in the bookstore that day.

I know I am not along in thinking—-after finally retiring for the third time—-“How did I ever stand it?”
I can see now how great a burden it was for my family to have to deal with me, sleep-deprived, and constantly anxious I was going to kill someone in my sleep-deprived state.

quote:

Originally posted by golddot:
“We all hide our grief, suffer in silence. The pain can be close to debilitating.”

sounds like a day in the life of a LEO , Vet w PTSD

quote:

Originally posted by sjtill:
I know I am not along in thinking—-after finally retiring for the third time—-“How did I ever stand it?”

Yep.

I left law enforcement a couple weeks ago. Couldn't do it any more.

The stress of unemployment, job searching, and starting over in a new career is exponentially less than the job was. It's actually a nice change of pace, believe it or not.

Not sure how I even made it this far. Something's got to give with ridiculously high stress, high stakes jobs like surgeons and cops, as it only seems to be getting worse with each passing year. It's not sustainable.

quote:

I can see now how great a burden it was for my family to have to deal with me, sleep-deprived, and constantly anxious I was going to kill someone

everyday. my hats off to them, and to you JSK, I am 5 years out and 2 years now off the streets, on a desk job till I leave now.

quote:

Originally posted by sjtill:
I know I am not along in thinking—-after finally retiring for the third time—-“How did I ever stand it?”
I can see now how great a burden it was for my family to have to deal with me, sleep-deprived, and constantly anxious I was going to kill someone in my sleep-deprived state.

100% agree ....still have dreams ....anesthetist....retired x 3 years

Whew just read that article. Carrie Cunningham is one gutsy lady.

It reminded me of my eldest son who once worked at a terminal patient care facility in southern California. He was torn apart by the loss of patients he had bonded with. He lasted about twice the norm period for those others who provided care before he too couldn't handle the stress and grief.

Just wanted to say thanks to you folks who do these jobs.

I have a few friends who work in the medical field. One is a hepatologist and the other a nurse practitioner. The hepatologist routinely gets to know patients and then watch them drink and eat themselves to death. The nurse practitioner deals mostly with diabetics and gets to see a lot of the same. The former hasn't said much about it other than she's continually amazed and saddened. The latter has cut people out of her life who routinely make unhealthy choices that will eventually kill them because she gets enough of that at work.

Not surprised at all. The drug thing runs rampant in the medical field. Every month, I receive the Texas Medical Board Bulletin with updates and news, plus a list of docs who had their licenses revoked / suspended. And, just like clockwork, among the unprofessional conducts and incorrect diagnoses/treatments, a bunch of docs who were impaired because of drugs and/or alcohol. I'd imagine that this is just not isolated to the state of TX.

I protest that the article makes the impression that the suicide trend is endemic to the medical profession.

I believe it cuts across society. Here's my reasoning: I've recently learned there's a spate of suicides in the military, specifically in the Navy. When I was in, people were wanting to get out but getting out by suicide was never a top consideration. I've had people literally shoot themselves in the foot to get out of the nuclear program but they just wanted to get out of the program, not the navy.

So, to me, it's more of a generalized problem affecting a lot of people. One can even argue that drug addicts are going by slow suicide.

And why do I want to say the issue is not just in some specified professions or groups? Because I believe finding the right answer to any problem is in correctly articulating the problem statement. The right problem statement can lead to the correct solution while the problem incorrectly stated doesn't.

^^^^^^^
You are correct the rate of suicide is sky high in the military. So far it is only commercials and lip service. The suck it up attitude prevails.
I think most people had no idea of the number of suicides with surgeons, as they are the top of the chain of respect and admiration. Yes there are plent of violations to the state medical board where I live. The problems start with overwork, depression etc. Drugs are not the primary reason for killing oneself.

I made the time to read it this evening, Michael. Thanks. She’s an incredible physician, surgeon, woman, and human being. I wish her and her colleagues the best going forward. God knows, we all will need, or have needed, someone like her in our lifetime.

For software development, there are frequently multiple levels of testing, peer review, and load testing at scale before things are released to production. Engineering in general tries to use similar approaches.

With things that involve life and death, it's normal to push doctors, nurses, and others so they work while exhausted, stressed, and likely to make mistakes.

Why is the medical system still this way?